Its only when things go really pear shaped that we get to hear about them.
Over the last couple of years there must have been 7-8 that had come inside the islands up here to shelter and repair tow lines that had snapped or for other problems. Some require a few hour some days, depending on what has gone wrong.
We get to hear about them from DoT because they have to be notified as a result of the barge collission 5 years back that killed 4 of our sea rescue members.
All as far as I know have both a "waterfall" type winch drum (two seperate winches and wires), plus an emergency tow which is snaked up and down the side held by sacrificial steel straps then a stinger that trails behind with a large norwegian buoy. Hence dont pass close behind a towed barge.
This gets picked up if the main tow snaps. But no-one is going to risk their life for a few thousand tonnes of steel and a small amount of hydraulic/diesel oil.
We had one off Darwin that was shadowed for 3 days until it was calm enough to pick up again but that was well clear of any hazards.
John the ones in Shark Bay will be repairing their main tows as the emergency tow is just that plus most projects insist on having full redundancy.
If they were travelling down the coast, there is very little practical shelter after Shark Bay.
If they have trouble they get in close behind Bernier island to shelter from the swell, coming in between Dorre and Dirk Hartog islands if travelling north and out through there if heading south.
The last one I had anything to do with had snapped its towline and they were having trouble getting the bridle on the spoil barge up so they could reconnect the line. Ended up having to get another tug in to assist. It was a dump /spoil barge about 100 metres long
I may be wrong but i thought that in towing barges and such they used a very heavy line from both towing vessel and barge and in the middle was a long length of very heavy chain. the idea being that the chain caused a belly in the tow and this slack area acted as a shock absorber so that the tow line never became taught. your comments would be appreciated (it's been quite a while since i have seen any towing exercises)
Fairly recently in Coxswains. The chain creates a catinery curve, similar to the chain on the anchor rode to act as a shock absorber, in the Small Ships Manual it shows them using : tow vessel, heavy line, anchor chain, anchor/anchor, anchor chain, heavy line, vessel under tow.
It was some fairly hairy seas out there, the dynamic amplification factors(DAF) would have been huge on the load. Still waiting to hear who approved the vessel to set sail.
They were not the only ones dumb enough to set off without checking the forecasts.
A trawler [ ex Exmouth, the Dongara K] now on its way again to QLD left when the storm was about to break and spent a couple of days getting a hammering before stupidly deciding to tie up to a cardinal mark just off the main channel in to the harbour instead of paying wharfage for the night or anchoring by the tug cyclone moorings. The local DoT inspector dished out 3 x $200 fines for their efforts. Would have only cost them about $50 overnight.
you guys are talking more of towing with rope-where you might use chain, even an anchor or tyre to take out the shock.
na no chain in the middle-the tow wire is usually about 30-40mm dia wire so very heavy. I havent done that much towing but cant recall seeing the towline completely out of the water-usually the catenary in the wire is such that in 20 meters of water itd be dragging on the bottom unless shortened
Sometimes the problem comes from not "freshening" the tow daily or more often-just letting a meter or so out so the same spot isnt wearing on the roller, gob chains or scotchman.
Sometimes its harmonics, vessel and barge not in sync.
Freshening the nip was also in the book, harmonics is an interesting and valid point now that you mention it was not really covered in the manual. Ive just done the course and have no commercial sea time, I like the fact that there are experienced commercial people on here to let us know about the real world aspects of these situations. Thanks.
Wes F
Posts: 1067
Date Joined: 07/01/12
Miclyn Venture
first trip for these guys won't be happy only just got new contract on the Gorgon project. Was on board earlier this week.
Old fishermen never die they just smell that way.
chrisp
Posts: 1217
Date Joined: 24/05/08
Mmmmmm
Seems a bit foolhardy to commit to towing a barge in the current weather conditions..
chookc
Posts: 442
Date Joined: 07/01/10
Could be twenty new mine
Could be twenty new mine kitted hiluxs on the reef soon...
Rob H
Posts: 5817
Date Joined: 18/01/12
yeah seems odd that they
yeah seems odd that they would have departed Freo in that weather?
ive done that barge run to Barrow before, Chevron will view it very poorly
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
One report said it was coming
One report said it was coming down, not going up, but there seems to be a lot on it for that to be the case.
sea-kem
Posts: 15041
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Some arse kicking
Some arse kicking confferences today methinks. What a balls up.
Love the West!
carnarvonite
Posts: 8673
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Hear about them
Its only when things go really pear shaped that we get to hear about them.
Over the last couple of years there must have been 7-8 that had come inside the islands up here to shelter and repair tow lines that had snapped or for other problems. Some require a few hour some days, depending on what has gone wrong.
We get to hear about them from DoT because they have to be notified as a result of the barge collission 5 years back that killed 4 of our sea rescue members.
Rob H
Posts: 5817
Date Joined: 18/01/12
All as far as I know have
All as far as I know have both a "waterfall" type winch drum (two seperate winches and wires), plus an emergency tow which is snaked up and down the side held by sacrificial steel straps then a stinger that trails behind with a large norwegian buoy. Hence dont pass close behind a towed barge.
This gets picked up if the main tow snaps. But no-one is going to risk their life for a few thousand tonnes of steel and a small amount of hydraulic/diesel oil.
We had one off Darwin that was shadowed for 3 days until it was calm enough to pick up again but that was well clear of any hazards.
John the ones in Shark Bay will be repairing their main tows as the emergency tow is just that plus most projects insist on having full redundancy.
If they were travelling down the coast, there is very little practical shelter after Shark Bay.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
carnarvonite
Posts: 8673
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Northwards
If they have trouble they get in close behind Bernier island to shelter from the swell, coming in between Dorre and Dirk Hartog islands if travelling north and out through there if heading south.
The last one I had anything to do with had snapped its towline and they were having trouble getting the bridle on the spoil barge up so they could reconnect the line. Ended up having to get another tug in to assist. It was a dump /spoil barge about 100 metres long
Notorious
Posts: 914
Date Joined: 23/02/12
Who is the contractor?
Who is the contractor?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/174055815943047/?fref=nf
Dhuvinile
Posts: 228
Date Joined: 13/05/12
Hahahahaha OMS, my employer!
Hahahahaha OMS, my employer! This happens on a regular basis, toes parting due to fatigue and rough weather.
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
Chain not used now
I may be wrong but i thought that in towing barges and such they used a very heavy line from both towing vessel and barge and in the middle was a long length of very heavy chain. the idea being that the chain caused a belly in the tow and this slack area acted as a shock absorber so that the tow line never became taught. your comments would be appreciated (it's been quite a while since i have seen any towing exercises)
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
This was what I was taught also
Fairly recently in Coxswains. The chain creates a catinery curve, similar to the chain on the anchor rode to act as a shock absorber, in the Small Ships Manual it shows them using : tow vessel, heavy line, anchor chain, anchor/anchor, anchor chain, heavy line, vessel under tow.
It was some fairly hairy seas out there, the dynamic amplification factors(DAF) would have been huge on the load. Still waiting to hear who approved the vessel to set sail.
carnarvonite
Posts: 8673
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Not the only one
They were not the only ones dumb enough to set off without checking the forecasts.
A trawler [ ex Exmouth, the Dongara K] now on its way again to QLD left when the storm was about to break and spent a couple of days getting a hammering before stupidly deciding to tie up to a cardinal mark just off the main channel in to the harbour instead of paying wharfage for the night or anchoring by the tug cyclone moorings. The local DoT inspector dished out 3 x $200 fines for their efforts. Would have only cost them about $50 overnight.
Not a very smart move on both counts.
Rob H
Posts: 5817
Date Joined: 18/01/12
you guys are talking more of
you guys are talking more of towing with rope-where you might use chain, even an anchor or tyre to take out the shock.
na no chain in the middle-the tow wire is usually about 30-40mm dia wire so very heavy. I havent done that much towing but cant recall seeing the towline completely out of the water-usually the catenary in the wire is such that in 20 meters of water itd be dragging on the bottom unless shortened
Sometimes the problem comes from not "freshening" the tow daily or more often-just letting a meter or so out so the same spot isnt wearing on the roller, gob chains or scotchman.
Sometimes its harmonics, vessel and barge not in sync.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
Good points Rob
Freshening the nip was also in the book, harmonics is an interesting and valid point now that you mention it was not really covered in the manual. Ive just done the course and have no commercial sea time, I like the fact that there are experienced commercial people on here to let us know about the real world aspects of these situations. Thanks.
Bryan
Wes F
Posts: 1067
Date Joined: 07/01/12
Salvage job
Got word today approx 14 ballast compartments have been penetrated, could possibily be more with further investigation.
Old fishermen never die they just smell that way.
sea-kem
Posts: 15041
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Luckily the weather is going
Luckily the weather is going to moderate through the week.
Love the West!
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
Boo, I want a new dive wreck!
Boo, I want a new dive wreck!
WSHN4FSHN
Posts: 224
Date Joined: 19/09/12
Update??
Anyone have an update of what ended up happening or is still happening?
Burley it and they will come.
carnarvonite
Posts: 8673
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Off
Its off the reef and Chevron are asking big questions on why it left the day before the forecast big blow with diesel and hydraulic oils on board.
Rob H
Posts: 5817
Date Joined: 18/01/12
the diesel and hydraulic oils
the diesel and hydraulic oils are always going to be on the bigger barges as they have a power pack to operate the anchors.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
carnarvonite
Posts: 8673
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Oils
From what I can gather the hydraulic oil was stored in drums, not for the barge winches.