I actually asked about at least 4 weeks ago for some tags as we were geting a lot of undersize dhufish and snapper and thought it might help out , still to this day have not received any feedback into the matter . Personally I think its piss poor , I knew they took a bit of a funding cut but wouldn't placing real tags in real fish be better than speculating or averaging figures on fish stock / sustainability  levels off  other means of survey's . I know a few people who were involved in tagging pinky's this year and their wasn't a lot of money avaiable for them , but with all the v5 talk these days the goverment should allocate some more out of the billion dollar surplus . But to not have the decentcy to reply , well thats put me off them

I wonder if I could get a fishwrecked tagging program happening and look for an external grant for funds to supply tags to responsible and interested anglers that are out there doing the right thing...

Its not exactly a very difficult thing to tag them, measure them and record the state they are in.  The most important part is the fish is looked after during this measurement/tagging process as best as possible.  I'd guess we'd have a few people interested? 

I seem to catch dhuies left right and center at 54cm

I thought that only happened to me,I allways reckon I'm due a big one "oneday"
Fast fish rule!

I would be very intrested in that Adam keep me in touch,We some days would release 5-6 dhuies of different sizes,most in good condition.

Some days only a couple and some days more, but if a tag was in every fish released then we would soon start to get an idea of numbers and movements.I for one would give time and fuel for this exercise.trips for tag and release purposes ,and not for a feed.Could be looking for new ground in the prosess. ALL good i would also pay for the tags within reason...

we uses to get a kit from the Aust. Nat. S/fishing Assc. that was a rollout measuring board tagging cards small tags and an applicator,all info went back to them
Fast fish rule!

On the average day we release probably about 3-4 undersize , but the last few that we have released have sat in between the 48-49 cm bracket . Have a try for some funding adam .

WE also had words with fisheries, but they said the best you can do is donate frames.

Be interesting in collecting numbers of people adam and details of how they have approached fisheries and have had no action just to put up an argument to try and get a grant , many people here would support something along the lines of what rob said and pay a small fee to offset the kits as in the long run we are the ones who will benefit from the research

pm sent

Count me in Adam. All I have to do after i get the tags is find some bloody dhu's big or small will do.

So many fishing spots. Not enough sickies!!!!!!!

what we really need to find out if they travel , 

not far, out of thousands of Jewies  that i know of,1 moved a considerable distance,  

First Jewie was tagged in 96/ 97 

recapture rate is one of the highest in the world. runs around 10%, why is this so since they are supposed to suffer badly from baratrauma and follow the crays in and out each year ? 

Currently there is no research programs that warrant a tagging study, that's why its hard to get tags or funding for tags. you dont want to stick plastic things in fish for no reason, it has to be done right by trained people 

Last thing you want to do is every man and his dog tagging fish. Its far better to get a handful of serious blokes who go out a lot and are prepared to write down accurate data that can be used. Bad data is not good for anyone.

I remember one recapture out off of Rotto. same guy caught his own fish, Tag sheet said released Jewie at 520mm North West of Rottnest using the release weight  in 50m. very bad condition. ( he should of written coords in here) recaptured 1 year later Northwest of Rotto measured 480mm. ( the fish had shrunk )

Fisheries look at things like this and say, good god how do we trust this data when they cant measure a fish right..

Tagging has pros and cons, Max garth used get stuck into me on Hotbite because he would say whats happened to the other 90%. well they are still swimming, maybe they died, maybe the tag fell out, maybe some one recaptured it and ripped the tag out, ( does happen)

I would personally like to see pop up tags, but a thousand dollars a pop, it isn't cheap. that would give ya serious data thou.

wally

oh, and there is not many really big Jewies tagged. wonder why

Wally, my recapture rate was much higher then 10% and they were all in the same spot,I'm trying to get hold of the recorder at the time for WCSC to see what info he still has.
Fast fish rule!

I'm trying to get hold of the recorder at the time for WCSC to see what info he still has.

if it is who i think it is Uncle he has one book ( Garry Lilley), the rest went to John Stevens when they took the phone. unless of couse you are talking about Stilly who had it for the first year

I am trying really hard as well to get all the data, so we can post it up to prove a piont, work in progress

thats a great photo,nice size to,he would have gone back alright.

Wally,I see where you get your stats(Austag website] it does confirm that duies are territoral,of the 13000 odd tagged, how many would have been recaptured by apapthic Pros and amateurs,tags fallen out,or eaten by bigger fish.
Would still be nice to get a program up to involve the fishwrecked crews
Fast fish rule!

I have never in all the years of fishing caught a tag fish of any kind, not sure if that is good or bad. As said maybe they fall out after a short time, or maybe they all die. These things we really need to know. Well maybe one day I’ll get a phone call asking me to participate in the tagging, one can only hope..

Wally , Read the original post and how bout answering the questions . It seems you come on here and spread a lot of negativity, so if you want to keep criticising go to another site ,

Do you fish ?

Are you actually involved in any fishing?

Or do you actually eat fish ?

The last thing we want is people throwing tags overboard and saying they put them in fish.

This does not look good from a mortality perspective. You can understand why that in the past issuing tags has been with people who have a history of catching a reasonable amount of Dhus and then most importantly releasing them plenty above size.

Hence Uncles participation. He was putting them back above size so that  mortality of size fish could be assessed.

The other thing is this could raise awareness of fishers to look for tags and most importantly "report" them.

Theres a 17kilo one out there with a tag in it somehwere and probably a few more with tags.

good friends of mine whom were catching/releasing loads of dhuies stared taggin , tags from busso fisheries, they tagged over 50 dhuies and recaught like 25 in the same grounds, 1 dhuie i remember was caught on a chicken wing, tagged had grown 2cm in 1 yr same spot..released again.. 55cm to 57 cm and was a male..

ps they love chicken wings.

to get tags requires info back.. mates have released some spots to fisheries that they may not know about but in return have required spots from them ...

lets all fish for the future,,we successfully released over 10 dhuies last weekend  all without release weight,but would of been easier if i had one i,m sure..on sunday we brought home only 1 out of 9 caught, was enough with the snapper/bb/reds etc we had..i was proud of that but they were small- but size-- we let the live/

i,m sure alot of pple don,t care and just hammer til they get their feed plus, but these are special fish and its easier to catch dhuies than some other spieces,

Wally , Read the original post and how bout answering the questions . It seems you come on here and spread a lot of negativity,

I asked a simple question feral why do you want too tag fish? take that as negative, but show us an answer

This isn't about a witch hunt. Adam  allows me too post after all the crap that i have posted, why, he knows what i have done and i promised too not be aggressive and i wont.

JC and SC are good blokes. hell i dont agree with them all the time and and the same with them with me, still good blokes, ya understanding what i am saying here.

2 Fresh water impoundments that stock native Australian species

3 recreational fisherman to give a sh%t, guys on websites dont cut it most of them already know. less then 5 % use the release weight this needs to change

4 and this more important then any thing else. I want my kids  and theirs to have the same experiences as i have had. I cant see this happening. that's why i give a fuk. and that is crabbing/ fishing viewing/ diving what ever

5 I will never post my captures on any website because i learnt the hard way. but if you want to come around for a beer i will show ya what i have caught. wont tell ya where thou

is that good enough for ya. i posted this up on Wangler today. a 15kg Jewie is roughly 20 years old. you catch this fish and it doesn't matter who catches it. then too replace that fish will be in 2028, scary hey. see where i am coming from now, going back to the kids and theirs

wally parkin 

Posts: 641

Date Joined: 22/02/07

Research wally research , put on your bi focals and read . Research would be :

-Do dhufish move or are they residentry fish a question which would be more yes they move and how much

- Growth rates of fish over time  , maybe male versus female

- Sustainability ?

And  can you answer my questions ?

At least you answered one wally thank you very much

mate you read my post the wrong way, i am not gunna get into a slanging match with ya because you think i am a tosser

Thanks wally have a great life

-

well guys after ewading thru all this i,d like a cple of comments..

firstly wally,, why is ther a bad response to feral wanting to tag fish?, u say it like you have to be some sort of government fisho to do so.. hell i want to tag fish also, probably because of the same reason feral is wondering about stocks and history and future etc, so why is that a bad thing?

saltrix -  i want to tag fish also, and yes this is wa  not qld.. we aslo care about the stocks mate , we r not just on this site to post kill pics.. if i or we can do something to help/preserve the future stocks and tagging helps research then why bag the idea......

seem pointless to me. ...

i have some other cooments atm which i wont post, cause i dont want to offend ppl..

seems to me some big boys with big toys think they have more right, which is absolute shiit... we are all equall , a bigger boat doesnt mean a bigger person..!!!

well said harro , amen

It's a great idea, and we as anglers would be silly not to pursue it !!! As I have shown, my kids are getting into fishing to and I would hate to think there would be nothing left for them to catch !!!

But we can't just let a bunch of stuck-up highly educated people do the research because most of them are damn WALLY'S !!!!!!! You may be highly educated but when it comes to things like COMMON SENCE and life experiences they are very DUMB (too many years in books and behind a desk)!!! As the add says

 "THAT AIN'T LIVIN' "

And every Dhuie frame will be saved in the future and handed in for research !!!

ALWAYS TIME FOR FISHIN' 

Rotto mate book me seat , steak and beers in every can , look a bit funny fishing for squid in it but

maybe i read wrong.. sry but as i stated  we in wa still care about the stocks..

spins me out when guys come in from other states and TELL, us we are doing it wrong like we dont care..

but obviously we need to look after our state , i guess as recs we dont have much more of a say than this.. 

hence the tagging dispute.....

peace

Heres some light reading for anyone interested in what happens around the country in regards to tagging.

http://www.ansa.com.au/ click on the Austag research report.

Heres Queensland tagging program

http://ansaqld.com.au/tagging/

Research wally research , put on your bi focals and read . Research would be :

-Do dhufish move or are they residentry fish a question which would be more yes they move and how much

its been Done Feral, West tag project shows jewies are residential, but Mike Mackie played with acoustic tags with very little success

- Growth rates of fish over time  , maybe male versus female  

its done, we are waiting for the FRDC report, frames help here as well

- Sustainability ?  

Don't understand that question. tagging wouldn't give you that data

And  can you answer my questions ?  

think i did Feral. look if you can get  it going good on ya. . saltrix isn't talking crap. Fisheries WA hates ya sticking plastic into fish unless it is for a specific research Get andy to ask Ian Kaey if ya dont believe us, i sincerely wish all the best with it thou, 

firstly wally,, why is ther a bad response to feral wanting to tag fish?, u say it like you have to be some sort of government fisho to do so.. hell i want to tag fish also, probably because of the same reason feral is wondering about stocks and history and future etc, so why is that a bad thing?

harro its not a bad thing if done right  I didn't say that.
i said fisheries thinks its a bad thing. and i never said ya need to be a government fisho in fact most tags that are put in are by recs.This started through ANSAWA where ya had to be a member, then they intoduced ANT taggers where ya paid for ya kit and got trained to tag, then they handed out tags to the average joe and quite frankly as Saltrix has pointed out it went south. guys were not handing in their original data sheets, the 1800 number was called to report a recapture but there was no data of the original release, waste of a good recapture

then the other scale. Alan Bevan/ Shikari charters/ Michael Constantine and Garry lilleys tagged fish didn't get used in the research because their recapture rates were a lot higher then any one else's. there for they were good at what they did, Fisheries thought well everyone is not like them so we cant use their data. How wrong is that ?

Wally

DHUFISH tagged 1626 recaptured 157

PINK SNAPPER tagged 1496 recaptured 122

BREAKSEA COD tagged 357 recaptured 14

BALDCHIN GROPER tagged 76 recaptured 0

"The vast majority of recaptured WA Dhufish show very little movement from the original tag location. This species seems to have a very small home range and is generally recaptured on the same reef patch and many times by the original angler. Figure 26 shows Dhufish movement from tag recaptures from 1998 to 2005, during this period a total of 1,363 Dhufish were tagged and 134 recaptured. This figure does not include the 2006 recapture of a 700mm fish that had moved over 60km after 1,685 days at liberty from north-west of Rottnest Island (length - 360mm) to the inshore waters near Two Rocks."

You can find the info and more here: http://www.ansa.com.au/Austag%20Research%20Report%20200506.pdf

"The efforts of Allan Bevan, Garry Lilley and Wally Parkin are greatly appreciated for their outstanding assistance with both the reef fish and Samson Fish tagging projects. Finally many thanks must go to Bill Sawynok for his excellent support and ongoing advice.

Westag still faces many challenges and we are currently working hard to provide useful and applicable data for the benefit of fisheries research, recreational fishers and, most importantly, the fish."

from that info Andy, it looks like Wally has had quite a bit to do with info in these studies.... BUT..... by the looks of this thread he shows a lot of negativity towards  others trying to "do their bit" to save the species...... makes you wonder really why he would spend time on these studies if he doesnt want help to save the fish...... ..... it seems to me that not only feral but many others on here are willing to help out, be trained in and be involved in the tagging process, therefore further the studies.....

maybe the Wally could just step aside and let the people that are REALLY interested in helping out get on with it

cheers Jes

I wrote this 

not far, out of thousands of Jewies  that i know of,1 moved a considerable distance,  

then i wrote this 

then the other scale. Alan Bevan/ Shikari charters/ Michael Constantine and Garry lilleys tagged fish didn't get used in the research because their recapture rates were a lot higher then any one else's. there for they were good at what they did, Fisheries thought well everyone is not like them so we cant use their data. How wrong is that ?

There's a lot of other fish that those 3 tagged that aren't in the numbers 

As for one moving, that's what I know of, haven't had the recapture info for a long time. there could be more, very little is my bet,

And i will clarify when i say move, my personal belief is they move say the radius of subi oval grounds, stadium included, but definitely dont follow crays in  and out 30nm 

You can take it as negativity, it wasn't honestly meant that way. I know the process , bloody hard work. lots of your own time. lots of your own money. its not just tagging fish, that's why recfishwest paid some one to do it, even then he had help from us. 

Wally

not sure,, i,ve been told that the occy,s follow the crays, the dhuies follow the occy,s

not to sure.. i do alot of diving for crays dont really see dhuies, i see wobby,s and i have seen occy,s..

i know the dhuies love herring..

Tagging & the info gathered is good if its backed by Fisheries (Program) as Wally said. I'm all for the idea of tagging fish when required but if done it needs to be done by dedicated anglers.

I've been heavily involved with tagging pinks for a long time (was asked) and as soon as the program finished so did i. There's a new study now and myself & another person has been asked to be involved by Fisheries Research. A few mates that have come out with me to help have been a bit shocked to whats expected when participating in a tagging program properly!

Despite what ppl think/say/know.....i'll always stand by that Dhufish do "move" and this is very evident with Dhufish spots that i have that are loaded certain times of the year and absolutly DEAD when they move on. I do however agree that Dhufish are very rezzy in "general" but highly migratory also in "schooling fish"

* Oceanside- Advice, Knowledge, Experience....that's our difference *

Owner of "Oceanside Tackle & Marine"
364 South St, O'Connor, Perth Ph 9337 5682

Well this is an interesting slanging match. After filtering through all the person attacks you may have a good idea but good ideas aren't always practical ones. If there is no benefit from bringing Dhuies up from what ever depth then why put them through that trauma? A slow raising increases the chance of them being eaten by sharks doesn't it? Now I for one have caught a few Dhuies over my time but have learn the art of using a release weight which is the most important part of these fish being able to survive. In saying that I also know of people trying to make big profits out of selling these items and maybe that is the start of the neglectful nature of some fishos. These are the sort of things that either Recfishwest or Government should creating a subsidy for so that the store can make a little bit of cash from them BUT make them cheap enough that any fisherman can buy them without worrying about the price. It could be done as a pre-paid card that is sent to either of these groups to have a refund posted out to the purchaser. I don't like the idea of closers (as in Cockburn Sound) but I rather have that than no Snapper at all. The down side is though that many fisherman now get the mentality that "I need to get out and kill the pig before it closes" which almost defeats the purpose of the closer. As many of us preach or want to be seeing doing the right thing there are so many more who don't give a sh*t and all the rules in the world don't work unless there is someone to enforce them. There should be fisheries officers at all ramps public or privet but I know that will never happen. I have met Wally once and all I can say is he is not a man whom beats his own drum when it comes to protecting fish stocks but he has done more than most of you would know. I have even myself had a clash with him over a couple of things BUT if I was to have a group of men by my side when starting a plan of how to improve recreational fishing as a whole he would be on that list with no hesitation! If you can get fisheries to agree that tagging Dhuies is the best way to get some hard facts on how they are going in a survival way I certainly would put my hand and cash up to help. I would be happy to do this for all cat5 troubled species if it is the best way but if it's not then maybe Fisheries or Recfishwest can point us in a better direction.   we all have our own agenda on things, that is how things actually get done. Someone who has an idea pushes to others hoping to achieve what they want out of it. I know a few guys on this site who preach the "catch n release" but in reality don't actually do it but want to be seen doing the right thing. There are a lot of changes to recreational fishing that really need to be done but will they be? Can they be? and who will be there to enforce them once they've been introduced? Just remember it's against the law to drive while holding and taking on a mobile phone but how often do you see it?

As far as the movement of dhuies go's - I believe they definately move,
A diver i know continually gets Good sized dhus off one little ledge between the shore and the 5 fathom bank,
this is in the middle of a huge sand area and he gets his cray's there also the crays move to the ledge for protection when on the march,
If the fish only move only the size of subi (small ones do for sure) then there has been massive nubers of larger dhu's in that small area - maybe they should put a camera there!!!!
His records show 40+ fish over a 5 year period (less than 10 per year)and as these fish are so slow growing the ledge is not topped up by smaller fish that grow to size - The fish are moving to the area for Food that the ledge provides, Occy's,Crays,Eels,Stingrays,Wrasse (dhu are highly peditory) what ever they can get they eat and as we do have a cray run and as occys follow the crays you have a smorgasboard happening every cray run,
I believe that the reserch is showing limited movement purely because of the smaller size being tagged (how many over 6-7 kilo's have been tagged and recaptured ?)

If you look at most fish they will move for different reasons - Breeding,Richer Territory,Food.
When I look at any small demersal fish they hang close to structure for protection or pelagic fish they use the numbers game the more there are the less chance of you being the one to be eaten.
Small Dhufish will hang on ground untill they grow big enough not to get easily eaten then they will move to food rich areas or travel to breeding area's.
Larger dhu's may hang in a certain area for quite a while for food or breeding as soon as that is gone the fish will move.
I am not having a go at wally it is just that i have heard him say a few times over the years that dhuies don't move and myself and many other good fisho's I know think they do - from what I have noticed from fishing and diving my whole life is that fish move around and it is just about all fish not just Dhuies.
The only way of proving this will be the pop up tags - why not use this on some larger fish as research has shown the smaller fish hold up on the same ground for months if not years.

well  we caught 1 today we left it at that.. 16kg, plus red snapper.. called it an early morning, back by lunch.. very happy, and the 1 dhufish made like 20 snapbacks of fillets, so. that tells u something..so much bullshit.. i guess pple  that come onto this website love and know fishing...i think .. some of these threads stop a lot of pple from 

joining and posting.. that is a fact..

so lets keep it proffessional guys..there are some veryeducated pple on this site, and smart pple (me included...lol) if its gonna grow.. keep it good..

by the waY  we got a 16kg dhu today.. 2 reds then went home early..

as for the overpriced release weight bit.... yes, ultimately it would be good if fisheries  wore some of the cost,

They got 3000 made and apparently were handing them out down busso way a few weeks back. still if anyone one wants too loby the new minister we have 50 signatures from industry and recognized fisherman demanding the government spend more on this, We cant give them to another one that would make it our third

people on hear are happy to be taught, pay for the kits/tags, and tag released fish...

What about the other costs, and volunteer work. teaching people. distributing the tags, re distributing tags. making sure tag sheets are handed in ringing people to do so. this list is a lot bigger as well, lots of time for the guys that put their hand up, that i can vouch for

Wally

The poor bugger manning the 1800 number collecting data , even if they do ring the recapture thru at 11pm on a Sunday night.

Who's up to man the phone.

________________________________________________________________________

OFW Agent 88 , the Scarecrow.

If we focus on the original post from Uncle let's point out a few key ideas.
Release weights are a great inovation to help fish survive and I have used them but if you are out in 30 plus metres and you hook a fish which feels undersize (easier for the experienced fisherman) it will normally go back ok if you don't skull drag it to the surface because you are shitty a small fish has taken your bait. As Uncle pointed out " no release weight was used and he recaptured 16 fish(It's not like he is out there every weekend either.) I have been on many boats where I catch a fish and release it only to see someone near me pull up a similar fish with it's eyes and stomach bulging out and beyond saving.
We all love fishing...that's why we are on here. Let's all stay positive, support each other and try to stay on track.
Rosco

I do agree with 1 comment wally made...

Release weights are not used enough.

I did go on an organised fishing safari with a magazine, and they gave out release weights to all boats.

This wasnt because release weights are expensive, but just because people dont know what they are, or how to use them.

A short demonstration on how to use them, and i think the last count i heard was 64 fish released in 5 days on release weights.

Anyone who steps on my boat knows where the release weight is, and gets shown how to ues it.