filming on your boat/kayak makes you a comercial vessel?
MEDIA RELEASE
Coalition the only answer as Rudd Labor and Greens slap GO PROenforcement action on recreational fishing media and anglersCEO of the Australian Marine Alliance (AMA) Dean Logan today highlighted that the only safe vote for the2013 federal election for millions of recreational fisherman and allied businesses was the Federal Coalition,as Labor / Green policy now seeks to impose heavy fines on recreational anglers and recreational fishingmedia who take footage of fishing activity.
Mr Logan, “Thanks to Labor and the Greens recreational anglers who fish from a kayak and who takefootage with their GO PRO and upload this footage to a sponsored facebook page, will be deemed by theAustralian Marine Safety Authority (AMSA) and State Agencies, as operating a ‘domestic commercialvessel’.
“If their vessel does not comply with the litany of commercial vessel requirements – for instance having theirboat surveyed on an annual basis – they will be subject to court action and issued with substantialcommercial based penalties
.“The situation is so bad that some state authorities are even suggesting that they could stream throughmedia already uploaded to hundreds of websites and sponsor based facebook pages and issue penalties retrospectively.”
State jurisdictions have enacted enabling legislation to enforce new laws passed by Federal Labor and the greens and implemented by the Australian Marine and Safety Authority (AMSA).
http://nationalsystem.amsa.gov.au/
As it stands vessels involved in production of TV fishing shows are not considered promotional activity orpart of a film set and so are not exempt from the legislation. As a result they will be deemed to be operatinga ‘domestic commercial vessel’ if they film fishing activity and post this footage on television, onto asponsors website or facebook page. They will subsequently need to comply with domestic commercialvessels requirements or face large fines and prosecution.
Mr Logan concluded, “It’s very clear that Federal Labor and the Greens are anti-business, anti-fishing andanti-fun.“Labor simply cannot be trusted.
These are draconian laws drummed up on the back of a postage stamp inCanberra.“By any objective standard the laws lack commonsense and a genuine understanding of Australian cultureand the notion of a ‘fair go’.“The irony of this legislation is that Labor and the Greens have single handedly turned every fishing andboating media outlet and millions of angry Australians against them only one week into their federal electioncampaign.“I wonder what Kevin Rudd’s Obama spin doctors have to say about that,” ended Mr Logan.
Hmmmmm may have to take down my videos for the time being
hlokk
Posts: 4293
Date Joined: 04/04/08
How about some paragraphs?
How about some paragraphs?
Or a reference/link?
Albee Mangles
Posts: 985
Date Joined: 20/05/08
This country
Is led by idiots, and becoming an absolute joke..
All i can say is, i dont like pollies.
Tradewind
Posts: 754
Date Joined: 18/09/12
We'll have to see if the
We'll have to see if the Greens actually hold any power after the federal election.
My hunch is a lot of people who meant well discovered how dangerous it was to give the greens a vote.
For the senate I'm definitely giving the candidate for the Shooters & Fishers party my vote, just as I gave the candidates for the state election my vote.
Sometimes I wonder if any of the politicians have ever been Fishing/Shooting/4WDing or Camping
donteatfish
Posts: 36
Date Joined: 23/07/12
I doubt
I doubt some of the pollies do anything that the common man enjoys. It would be interesting to see if any of them fish or not though. I'll take a punt that Bob Katter has a wet a line.
Saying that though, I had to laugh the other day that the press where trying to stitch Albanese up for having a pint with Craig Thompson. It looks like even when they try and do something normal, someones out to get them.
Jayden20
Posts: 672
Date Joined: 29/08/11
just passing on info from
just passing on info from another forum not sure were mr scotty coghlan got the info
hlokk
Posts: 4293
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Just wondering if its one of
Just wondering if its one of those kneejerk readings to something and doesn't accurately represent the information (wouldn't be the first for some journos...)
elliotbirch
Posts: 123
Date Joined: 29/05/12
Haha that would be a joke
Haha that would be a joke and I reckon fisheries officers will have trouble taking it seriously!
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
I would like to see
I would like to see where such a statement is coming from as I strongly suspect that this is a large piece of dark matter being put out by some one with an alternative and dark agenda.
kmo
Posts: 127
Date Joined: 17/01/12
Domestic Commercial Vessels
From the FAQ's on the AMSA website:
Are recreational vessels part of the Reform?
No. But if you are using your recreational vessel in connection with a commercial, governmental or research activity, it is for the purposes of the National Law a commercial vessel.
Has consideration been given to the impact for owners of vessels that are not currently subject to survey requirements but are likely to be under the new definition of domestic commercial vessel?
Any vessel operating before the commencement of the National Law that is not currently in survey will not need to be in survey under the national system. The grandfathering provisions allow the existing arrangements for vessels operating before the commencement of the National Law to continue, provided the vessels do not significantly change their current operations (for example, by moving jurisdictions, changing to a new operating class and so on).
The same grandfathering arrangements apply to crew qualifications / crewing requirements.
In addition, not all new domestic commercial vessels will be subject to survey under the National Law – see the Regulatory Plan and the Fact Sheets for more information on the arrangements for lower risk vessels and the exemptions to survey.
The way I interpret some of the info, only vessels over 7.5m in length will be subject to survey.
crasny1
Posts: 7006
Date Joined: 16/10/08
What the!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So if I Video and it is used commercially I am breaking a Law??
The Nannie state continue to get more and more restricted.
PS: Not that my footage is ever going to be used in a commercial sense, Im just not good enough
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
Robbo88
Posts: 72
Date Joined: 07/01/09
Nannie state?? Pretty sure
Nannie state?? Pretty sure the "Rudd Government" it's the federal government.... Liberals hold the state...
catch.fish
Posts: 150
Date Joined: 12/10/11
Ridiculous
Wow, what a joke!! So using a GoPro would make you a commercial vessel? Where do they draw the line exactly, does using the camera function on your iPhone mean your boat now needs to meet commercial survey requirements?
I take it a 'sponsored facebook page' means a page with a registered business name that's sponsored for profit and not just a 'community' based page like most people have meaning none of us really need to worry about it unless making $$$ from our footage?
Doooma
Posts: 791
Date Joined: 05/12/09
They can go %$^&
They can go %$^& themselves!!!
So what happens, when I load MY footage onto MY page? The other users may 'share' my links to other pages etc, and it could then be used for......
you know what..... Im not going even to get into it.......
They can just go (pro) ^%$& themselves
Vinesh87
Posts: 2751
Date Joined: 02/04/11
bahahaha no more photos of
bahahaha no more photos of fish too
big john
Posts: 8766
Date Joined: 20/07/06
End game
Well the green's end game is no rec fishing or rec hunting in Oz. If you reckon that's crap then your head is well and truly stuck in the sand.
Fight tooth and nail, your grandkids deserve it.
WA based manufacturer and supplier of premium leadhead jigs, fligs, bucktail jigs, 'bulletproof' soft plastic jig heads and XOS bullet jig heads.
Jigs available online in my web store!
Vinesh87
Posts: 2751
Date Joined: 02/04/11
Yes i know Don't stress i
Yes i know
Don't stress i fight.
Versus
Posts: 918
Date Joined: 06/03/09
Don't think it's really going
Don't think it's really going to affect any of us. Plus, i'd like to see anyone identify a boat when (generally) no-one actually films their boat rego/i.d
scottywiper
Posts: 247
Date Joined: 09/03/08
Guys, press release came from
Guys, press release came from Australian Marine Alliance in Canberra.
http://www.australianmarinealliance.com.au/
It is a response to some issues that BIA Victoria, in particular are having with this issue.
For example, Paul Worsteling and Lee Rayner have been told the boat they are filming on must be in survey, or cop a 10k fine.
Al McGlashan in Sydney facing the same issue.
The grey area is where they would draw the line on "commercial" activity...at the moment that is up to individual interpretation. This is what BIA Victoria is trying to get a definitive answer to, hence the press release.
marble
Posts: 778
Date Joined: 03/09/09
Maybe the guys filming and
Maybe the guys filming and making money out of it should be classed as commercial, after all it is an income stream for them.
As I understand it though if the boat is under 7.5 m then it doesn't need to be in survey ?
7.5 metres is roughly 24 foot 7 inches,pretty big boat. Depends where it is measured though.
PMY 25 Centre Console DF300 Suzuki
carnarvonite
Posts: 8673
Date Joined: 24/07/07
LOA
Usually professional boats are measured length over all, not water line length.
cell
Posts: 215
Date Joined: 06/07/13
All i can say is im glad i
All i can say is im glad i dont have go pro lol but phone on the other hand well thats another story. Iike Doooma said if i want to upload things on my fb page i will if someone else shares etc thats not my fault. How is it so wrong to post up your trophies or pb's
GIVE ME A FISHING ROD.....WELL THE REST IS HISTORY
Ausfisha
Posts: 33
Date Joined: 27/09/12
On a lighter note
If we can be persecuted for our videos being used by sponsored sights, can we then sue the sponsored sights for not obtaining our permission to use our videos for their profit?
cell
Posts: 215
Date Joined: 06/07/13
Too tru Ausfisha im with you
Too tru Ausfisha im with you take it to the top
GIVE ME A FISHING ROD.....WELL THE REST IS HISTORY
bitten
Posts: 803
Date Joined: 07/04/10
sounds like a whole lot of
sounds like a whole lot of bother about nothing im sure your not gonna be targeted for catching a dhuie and posting it on your facebook page
get over it
squidder
Posts: 457
Date Joined: 03/09/10
I'm sure
"Nearly" all the fishing shows we watch are a little "Commercial" and happen to be filmed on "UN" serveyed vessels.
pgreen1
Posts: 395
Date Joined: 20/02/08
HMMM In going to have to keep
HMMM In going to have to keep a close eye on this one.
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
Tagging
After reading the AMSA website I am a little less concerned in one sense as rec boats are not deemed to be included in the reform, and the definition of taking a pic and posting on a website and winning a prize somehow slipping you into a commercial context is tenuous at best, there is however a destinct issue with the research bit that I think needs urgent clarification.
At present WESTAG, Suntag and ANSA etc all need rec fisho's to carry out their tagging programs. Whilst the "Grandfathering" rules mean that I can continue to tag for research from my existing rec boat, and I can also donate my frames for research using that boat, but if I were to buy a new boat I would have to stop, otherwise I would fall foul of the new regulations. Similarly if I tag from someone elses boat I may be breaking the law.
I intend to put the question to Westag and hopefully get a clear response. Otherwise rec tagging will cease, which is only going to be bad for our fishery.
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
scottywiper
Posts: 247
Date Joined: 09/03/08
Interesting thoughts
Interesting thoughts Andy...I know this issue has arisen with regards to fish being transported for re-stocking....
scottywiper
Posts: 247
Date Joined: 09/03/08
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Latest from Canberra:
In terms of the commercial vessel law and associated concerns this may help a little.
The Commonwealth enacted the Marine Safety (Domestic Commercial Vessel) National Law Act 2012, in 2012.
Under this Act there are regulations – see attached. As you well know the devil is often in the regulations and this is what brings industry unstuck.
Delegation and/or enforcement has been handed down to the States. Hence the States must enact enabling legislation that complies with and reinforces the Commonwealth Act. See attached documents for Victoria and Tasmania as a start.
Concerns:
If you look at the Commonwealth Marine Safety (Domestic Commercial Vessel) National Law Regulation 2013 attached you will see:
1. Section 10: Definition of domestic commercial vessel—things that are not domestic commercial vessels:
- (a) if it would, but for this section, be a domestic commercial vessel only because:
(i) it is sponsored during a sporting event; or(ii) it is being used for a promotional activity, including an activity to produce an advertisement, or as part of a film set; or
(iii) a person is paid to operate the vessel or to be a member of the crew of the vessel; or
(iv) a person (the trainee) pays another person to train the trainee in the trainee’s vessel; or
2. Section 11 Definition of vessel—things that are vessels For paragraph 8(3)(a) of the National Law, each of the following is a vessel:
(a) a boat;
(b) a canoe;
(c) a dinghy;
(d) a dragon boat;
(e) a kayak;
(f) a pontoon;
(g) a tinnie.
Summary
When we read the Victorian Marine (Domestic Commercial Vessel National Law Application) Act 2013 we see a raft of concerns relating to terminology, definition, pilotage services and ‘masters of recreational vessels’ who must under the Act ‘...take reasonable care’.
When senior sources asked AMSA for clarification on all of these issues – including the ‘production of an advertisement’ and part of a ‘film set’ and where these activities sat - AMSA’s response was “seek your own legal advice”.
The other concern of course is that each state may adopt various subtle differences. This is not good for industry as we need certainty and consistency across jurisdictions.
Of great concern is an email between a boat owner and Victorian Water Police. The Victorian Water Police are now looking at enforcement and what is deemed or not deemed a domestic commercial vessel. The concern again is interpretation. Will Victorian Police prosecute an individual in a dinghy who takes footage and posts this onto a sponsored website or facebook page? I don’t know the answer to that question but we need answers.
Lastly, I don’t have all the answers but I have run this by those who do. We only agitated to help other organisations who have asked AMSA for clarity and who have found AMSA either unable or unwilling to address concerns.
Some people seem unhappy that the issue has been raised. However, I’d much rather address this now, than wait for a fisherman to be prosecuted over some stupid legal technicality. Moreover, it’s down right unacceptable to ask industry to seek their own legal advice or to test this in court.
I tend to agree with Malcolm Poole who suggests we collectively seek a moratorium on prosecution, until the issue is clearly and adequately addressed by Government.
scottywiper
Posts: 247
Date Joined: 09/03/08
And more... Normal 0
And more...
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Dean,
Thanks, good to hear and read your comments this morning on how you see things.
We just spoke with AMSA National Systems Office for near an hour covering this stuff, NOT AMSA themselves, they have been inundated with calls and redirections, we spoke at length on the issue as the hype gets more and more, there is not an issue they stressed and there is nothing that the want more to do than quieten this down to the correct level of engagement with those who operate or own a ‘domestic commercial vessel’ as defined by the new laws.
There is no impact on recreational users or their vessels of any type! This is about commercial domestic vessels solely, or those vessel that are used for both commercial and recreational use, there were several example given from vessel time share operations, to fishing filming, to blood worm operations in Morten Bay.
As you have suggested industry should consider requesting a moratorium at State and Commonwealth levels to deal with those commercial/recreational operators and owners caught in the middle. How many there are I would not like to guess, but would suspect no more than a few thousand which will end up being a few hundred in the end.
Keep us in the loop on the issue
This is what was their final outcome which we have posted on some social media sites and soon on the RFA site.
NOTHING has changed if you have a recreational vessel, paddle, power or sail, it complies as a recreational vessel to state maritime laws, is registered and/or used as a recreational vessel, then you are not impacted at ALL by this legislation.
AMSA and the National System Office have taken heaps of calls today, explaining their position, so if you call to check expect a waiting period.
However if you have a vessel that is used for commercial and recreational use then you are caught in this web of interest i.e. a timeshare vessel or a vessel used to fish and film. It is suggested you should call the National System at AMSA 1300 517 246 or check out their web site http://www.nationalsystem.amsa.gov.au/index.php . They will work through your specific scenario and deal with it through bringing you up to date with standards if you fall under their Act and Laws, offer a permit system to cover your activities, or suggest how best you can alter your activities to stay within the law, as has other low level operators have in relation to overall use, vessel size and power etc.
Now we can all go fishing and not worry about what we do in terms of our recreational boating and fishing activities taking pictures and videos of our fish and the great outdoors around Australia.
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
Wording - subtleties
I note the response uses the words commercial domestic vessels (which infers commercial vessels that occaissionally do rec fishing) whereas the actual AMSA stuff states domestic commercial vessels (which infers rec boats occaissionally being used for commercial/ research purposes). The FAQ's abd other clarifying comments in the legislation relate to the former but nothing on the latter.
That is where they need to expand.
I suggest the intent of the legislation is to only capture the true commercial activity and not the occaissional commercial activity, but it needs a bit of rewording to make everyone a little more comfortable to know they are not doing the wrong thing.
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
TheJettyRat
Posts: 733
Date Joined: 02/03/12
A bunch of muppets sitting in
A bunch of muppets sitting in parliament.
Jim
Posts: 1342
Date Joined: 05/05/06
Is it 'safety' that is
Is it 'safety' that is driving this? my whinge is that if its the law were stuffed. 'oh dont worry we wont prosecute recs' as if. maybe not right now but the next knob jockey in charge might decide to crack down on it, enforcing the law to the letter.
If someone is paying you to skipper or use your boat for the rotto swim (as asked on here many times), does that make you a commercial vessel for the day?
Getting coin from youtube ads from your popular kayak vids?
Just trying to understand it as it doesnt make much sense to me
Bend over
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
One more comment on tagging / research
Does this spell the end of all gamefishing tournaments, unless you are on a charter boat that is in survey?
The act of tagging a gamefish from a rec fishing boat could deem you to be doing research and as such fall foul of the new laws. Perhaps the greenies might suggest we simply disband with the tagging and actually land all marlin from now on so as not to break the law.... I'm sure they would like that.
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club