Logging in / out
Submitted by Wannafish on Fri, 2016-06-17 19:40
Hi all,
Can someone please provide me with the correct (and legal) procedure for logging in and out on a VHF.
I have a VHF flush mounted into my centre console, but don't have a license to use it (if this is still required), so have never logged in or out... Do I need to sign up with a sea rescue service and get a call sign, or can I use my boats rego number? Will I get fined for using a VHF without a license? Are there online, or face to face courses that I can or need to do?
i am keen to get this sorted so I can start logging in and out, so any help would be greatly appreciated!
Drew
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Hammerhead
Posts: 88
Date Joined: 22/09/09
Here mate
https://www.searescue.com.au/log.php
Not sure what an FG number is though?
tiimmbo
Posts: 695
Date Joined: 16/08/09
FG is just Fremantle sea
FG is just Fremantle sea rescues prefix which is followed by an individual 4 digit member number
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Find out what channel the
Find out what channel the VMR (volunteer marine rescue) operates on. Normally ch 73 around the metro area.
Wait for traffic to clear and call the VMR three times
In the example VN6DI is fremantle sea rescue.
Eg VN6DI, VN6DI, VN6DI this is DF223, DF223, DF223. pause and wait for a response.
Then VN6DI this is DF223. Departing ..... # of persons on board, litres of fuel, destination is....estimated time of return is ....."
Await acknowledgement.
And remember to log off when you return or advise of any change if plans.
Fish! HARD!
resurgence
Posts: 578
Date Joined: 23/04/14
Pretty easy
Your local VMR group will have a procedure. It's pretty much as Randall described, although Fremantle, that I know of, will also ask for your boat registration number. You can log on with a boat name, rego number, or if you join a VMR group they will assign you a callsign e.g. FG1234. This is on their database, and is assigned to the person, not the boat, so you can use it on any vessel you happen to be on.
Technically you need a licence to operate a marine VHF, but it's not policed and I don't know of anyone who has had an issue. One advantage of doing a course and getting a licence is that you can apply for a MMSI number. This can be programmed into Digital Select Call capable VHF's, which, when connected to a GPS, give the ability with the press of a single button to continuously transmit a distress call that contains the vessel MMSI and GPS location.
Courses are run by some of the VMR groups, and also by Challenger TAFE in Freo.
sunshine
Posts: 2625
Date Joined: 03/03/09
All VMR are required to secure your boat rego
As this allows emergency services to quickly look up the boats details in the event of an issue
Rob H
Posts: 5808
Date Joined: 18/01/12
the only problem with only
the only problem with only the boat rego is it skips the initial stages which is ring the people involved, check the ramp for the vehicle etc.
And they need to escalate immediately to contacting Water Police.
VMR does not have access to you via registration, only Police.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
resurgence
Posts: 578
Date Joined: 23/04/14
If the vessel/skipper is not
If the vessel/skipper is not a member of the particular VMR group then rego is the best information they can give, short of launching into a description of the boat over the radio. I know Freo Sea Rescue work closely with the Water Police and will escalate within half an hour if they can't raise the vessel by radio or other means.
Not sure what other info would be better.
Chinbald
Posts: 317
Date Joined: 21/02/09
Leeman 154
Any time I go on holidays or an extended fishing trip I call into the local sea Rescue if time permits, It's nice to meet the people that man the radios on a volunteer basis and provide an invaluable service to the sea going community. I also donate a $ or join up as if I have an issue at sea it will be the best donation ever. As Randall has stated above be clear and hopefully we all can return safely from a day on the water. Easily done or VhF or 27 meg if location permits, also avoid the random chat and language on the communication channels.
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8155
Date Joined: 07/05/12
I dont have a VHF licence but
I dont have a VHF licence but log in religiously even if heading out to Little Island. Haven't been fined yet...
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
Anyfishwilldo (not verified)
Posts: 16
Date Joined: 01/01/70
Is there a difference in
Is there a difference in range between the 27meg and vhf?
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Not sure if individual range
Not sure if individual range is the issue. But vhf is better supported infrastructure with repeaters up and down the coast. There is no more support for 27 mg so you'll only be covered in line of site scenarios.
Fish! HARD!
Anyfishwilldo (not verified)
Posts: 16
Date Joined: 01/01/70
Ahh ok cheers
Ahh ok cheers
resurgence
Posts: 578
Date Joined: 23/04/14
Generally VHF is better
All things being equal (or similar) VHF should give noticeably better range than 27MHz.
As noted above, there is better infrastructure support along the coast for VHF. There is a VHF repeater on Rotto (VHF81) and another at Pinjarra (VHF82), which means you can normally get VHF reception back to shore all the way from the trench.
Rob H
Posts: 5808
Date Joined: 18/01/12
VHF will ALWAYS be better as
VHF will ALWAYS be better as every commercial vessel has one and is required by law to monitor Ch16, though many fishing boats dont
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
dodgy
Posts: 4580
Date Joined: 01/02/10
27meg is not consistently
27meg is not consistently supported out of metro area. As soon as you go north they are next to useless.
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
Anyfishwilldo (not verified)
Posts: 16
Date Joined: 01/01/70
I was thinking about getting
I was thinking about getting a vhf but wasn't sure if it was worth the hassle getting a licence. Sounds like it's worth it...
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
Definitely worth the effort
Definitely worth the effort IMO. Most sea rescue groups hold radio courses through out the year and the small fee involved is well worth it (how much do you value your life).
You gain a good knowledge of the limitations of the radio and the correct method of using it.
sea-kem
Posts: 15031
Date Joined: 30/11/09
http://fishwrecked.com/forum
http://fishwrecked.com/forum/vhf-repeater-stations
Good for reference
Love the West!
Wannafish
Posts: 158
Date Joined: 20/05/12
Thanks again everyone for
Thanks again everyone for great info on another important safety 'net' when out in the boat. I have downloaded the Marine Radio Operators handbook from the AMC, and will endeavour to do the course before another trip up north.... Even if I don't do the course I will read the handbook, and start logging in and out...
Drew
sea-kem
Posts: 15031
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Do you have a link for that?
Do you have a link for that?
Love the West!
Wannafish
Posts: 158
Date Joined: 20/05/12
I think it is amc.edu.au
I think it is
amc.edu.au
Shepheard
Posts: 60
Date Joined: 07/02/15
WannafishGood Question,I'm
Wannafish
Good Question,I'm sure you are not alone.
There are many people that don't log on because they just don't know the procedure.
I lived in Tassie for awhile and fished the west coast,
Mast in Tassie Do all the boating,Licences and safety for rec boating.They hold meetings to show people how to let off flares,epirbs.Demonstrate different life jackets,which ones will turn you over if your knocked out in the water.
I still get the monthly news letters they put out and they have some interesting topics on safety.
Not sure if there news letter is on the net,but i'm sure it would be.Called MAST
Prego
Posts: 136
Date Joined: 03/06/09
Do the right thing
and get a VHF licence - it is required by law. Not much effort and I'm sure one day you just might be thankfull.
dodgy
Posts: 4580
Date Joined: 01/02/10
I agree. I've got it. Cant
I agree. I've got it.
Cant believe they haven't intergrated in into the Skippers ticket though.
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8155
Date Joined: 07/05/12
How does forking out > $100
How does forking out > $100 for yet another govt licence make me any safer?
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
Tim
Posts: 2497
Date Joined: 26/09/06
Easy
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8155
Date Joined: 07/05/12
Sorry, $83 for the licence
Sorry, $83 for the licence plus whatever the training costs on top of that.
How does paying $83 for a certificate something that I already do proficiently make me any safer?
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
sea-kem
Posts: 15031
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Because as we have seen in
Because as we have seen in the last few weeks if clowns hadda logged in the search areas would be greatly reduced. You have to be kidding about whinging over $100 to be shown and taught how to correctly operate and communicate a VHF radio? As soon as I get time I'll be doing the course.
Love the West!
Rob H
Posts: 5808
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Correct me if Im wrong Jack,
Correct me if Im wrong Jack, but you work in Local Government I think?
Should know all about complying with regulations and all that stuff
Seriously, the VHF is a commercial radio system that has been taken over by rec use as it is so much better in every way.
Could probably compare it to applying for a building permit for a bloke who is already an experienced and concientious builder.
He wont gain anything by paying the fees but still has to do it.
I have had a MROCP for about 20 years and there is no ongoing fee-if there is I havent paid it and mine is still valid...
Also, in fairness to commercial operators who are REQUIRED to monitor it, to have at least the most basic course to operate it in a manner that means its is not just turned off and ignored.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8155
Date Joined: 07/05/12
Maybe they should make some
Maybe they should make some stickers for those incompetent enough to do things without a reminder?
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8155
Date Joined: 07/05/12
How is forcing people to get
How is forcing people to get the qualification going to force them to log on and how is this any different to those using UHF which doesn't require a licence.
If anything the licence is scaring off those who purchase a boat with a VHF radio to actually use it in case of getting a fine IMO.
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
sea-kem
Posts: 15031
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Well we are all forced to do
Well we are all forced to do a skippers ticket to try and shave down the amount of ignorant idiots on the water. Learning how to use a radio properly can't be a bad thing. I really don't care about the licence at the moment, in a life and death situation I'm sure the fine would be waived
Love the West!
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8155
Date Joined: 07/05/12
Don't get me started on the
Don't get me started on the skippers ticket. Have you ever been up Basso way on a public holiday? There's skippers ticket providers who have open book test or even walk applicants through the test. Some even advertise that you cannot fail their test.
Those who are safety conscious will learn to log on etc correctly regardless of whether they have a superfluous certificate that no one actually checks.
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
Rob H
Posts: 5808
Date Joined: 18/01/12
VHF
it was tongue in cheek but maybe a bit subtle
It wont force anyone, nor should anyone be forced to log on as the whole coast simply does not have coverage.
But its no different to many things.
If you are going to use a VHF, be qualified to do it. (note I dont advocate a fee, but hey thats how Government works)
If you drive a car, even if you are Daniel Ricciardo, you need to pay for a licence to do it.
Difference is that UHF is "Citizens Band", free to talk whatever crap within reason but that is part of the reason it isnt as popular maybe?
VHF is actually a commercial radio frequency, but honestly, if you could hear the crap that gets put through on 16 by some amateurs and also foreign ship crews up north on a channel that by law you MUST listen to, then you'd probably understand that side a little more.
But certainly other than that reason, I am NEVER one to advocate more rules, fees and restrictions on anyone.
I also agree that it should be just incorporated into the skippers ticket.
Shit it only really needs to tell people
1/ say who you are calling first, then who you are
2/ when the silent periods are
3/ Mayday is if you are facing "immediate danger or threat to your vessel"
4/ Pan Pan if you require an urgent response for another reason
5/ "Mayday relay" etc if you hear a mayday or Pan Pan that isnt acknowledged
6/ How to adjust a VHF
7/ Correct channels to use, or more to the point NOT to use for a chinwag.
All that could be done in an hour for all but the most simple minded
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
dodgy
Posts: 4580
Date Joined: 01/02/10
Securitae if you encounter
Securitae if you encounter an unsafe situation that you need to alert other Mariners about.
I have had water police say they like to hear pan pan calls as they know they are dealing with someone that really knows how to use their radio.
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8155
Date Joined: 07/05/12
All that stuff is covered in
All that stuff is covered in the DoT RST book. If I remember correctly there's a good two pages on radio use including how to correctly log on and make all the calls according to the situation. Having the radio calls as one of the areas of proficiency in the ticket is a must IMO. So much so I'm going to contact the Minister today and get the ball rolling on it.
In regard to radio misuse, just like anything in life the world is unfortunately of idiots who believe they can go through life doing what they want.
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
Rob H
Posts: 5808
Date Joined: 18/01/12
true about the miuse,
true about the miuse, however it is hard to charge someone with that misuse if its not a requirement for them learn what it is for and how to use it.
Obviously it is still inadequate at the moment if we still have people here asking the most basic questions.And I would hazard a guess that 19 out of 20 who dont have a MROCP, have no idea about silent periods
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
sea-kem
Posts: 15031
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Every 10 mins after the
Every 10 mins after the hour?
Love the West!
dodgy
Posts: 4580
Date Joined: 01/02/10
3 mins after the hour and
3 mins after the hour and half hour.
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
Rob H
Posts: 5808
Date Joined: 18/01/12
thats right, becoming a
thats right, becoming a little outdated with DSC and GMDSS and also relates more to HF but is there none the less
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
resurgence
Posts: 578
Date Joined: 23/04/14
It won't force them to, but
It won't force them to, but it might make some people comfortable enough with using the radio that they might start logging in when previously they wouldn't.
And you aren't forced to do anything. You can always get a 27MHz radio.
dodgy
Posts: 4580
Date Joined: 01/02/10
Another way it will make you
Another way it will make you safer is having a Radio Operators licence enables you to apply for a mmsi number. This will enable you to hook up your dsc on your vhf.
That gives you a one touch distress call with location. Something a young child could easily be taught.
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
scubafish
Posts: 962
Date Joined: 15/08/12
Helpfull web sites
http://www.amc.edu.au/handbooks
http://www.amsa.gov.au/mmsi/
https://www.beacons.amsa.gov.au/Public
http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/Pages/Home.aspx
http://recfishwest.org.au/
http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/About-Us/Contact-Us/Pages/Office-Locations.aspx
http://img.gg/BQ91Sys
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
Agree with dodgy
I think it should be incorporated into the skippers ticket course.
carnarvonite
Posts: 8673
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Log on procedure
Pretty sure the bloke who does rec tickets up here includes the log on/off procedure as part of it.
Including the VHF licence in it would be an advantage but unless they actually log on to sea rescue each time they head out it is a waste of time.
Rob H
Posts: 5808
Date Joined: 18/01/12
it'd be the first step to
it'd be the first step to get a licence and some proficiency/confidence with the VHF.
Then maybe reduce the main problem with everyone using VHF, being the excessive number of c++kheads doing stuff like holding the handpiece down to broadcast the footy/metalhead music etc on 16 and abusing their mates on 16 which causes many commercial vessels to turn it off and possibly miss a distress call.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Stevo81
Posts: 1278
Date Joined: 16/04/12
When I did my RST at
When I did my RST at Hillarys in 2008 all the people doing the course had to run through a mock log on/off scenario on the water during the practical assessment. Course operator is still running down there so hopefully still includes it in his courses. It would be pretty sad if guys aren't logging on/off just because they dont feel comfortable or dont know what to say!
•••••••• Electrical Contractor NOR ••••••••
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8155
Date Joined: 07/05/12
Same here. I went with My
Same here. I went with My Deckie and he was great.
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Answer me this. I have my
Answer me this. I have my radio operators proficiency certificate that i got as part of my coxswain ticket back in tbe late 1990's. Is there any difference between that and a VHF licence? I have always assumed they are one in the same.
Fish! HARD!
carnarvonite
Posts: 8673
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Extra bit
Your marine radio operators certificate of proficiency should cover VHF and HF, now you can get one for VHF only
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Fish! HARD!
Deckie
Posts: 1296
Date Joined: 03/04/09
Logging on.
Logging on serves two purposes.
Firstly as said above, basically lets people know where you are heading and approximate time of return.
Secondly, it allows you to check that your radio is working. The amount of boaties that head out of the marina with all the antennas known to man, and don't do a radio check is amazing.
Would it not be good to know that it will work just incase you do need it ??????????
Sometimes copper wire & salt air don't really go well together.......
Cheers & Stay safe
bsir
Posts: 574
Date Joined: 24/04/11
Good Point
The Radio check you get fromlogging on/off is a huge benefit.
I generally try to (once a year) do a radio check when out wide just to make sure everything is workign as it should...as well as logging on for the day.
Its also good to get a feel for the range of your radio while there isnt a problem, and if the range is not suitable, changes cna then be made (eg new antennas/handsets etc).
carnarvonite
Posts: 8673
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Keeping radio on!
You would be surprised to learn of how many boaties log on then promptly turn the radio off or volume right down.
Many times I have had to call someone straight after they have logged on for more details and no reply as they think that was all that was needed and turned it off.
Spoke to a few later and the reply was that the power draw can flatten the battery or the chatter was distracting, which in my opinion is utter bullshit, the power draw is miniscule until the transmit button is pushed and that chatter may include someone else's mayday call that they could have picked up and saved a life.
Rob H
Posts: 5808
Date Joined: 18/01/12
and that comes back to the
and that comes back to the VHF-that chatter shouldnt be on Ch16, the one yoiu'd use for a distress call.
Anyone with a VHF is perfectly within his rights to break in on 16 and inform the "chatterers" that 16 is for contact and distress and to change to another channel please.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
resurgence
Posts: 578
Date Joined: 23/04/14
Opposite for me
I have my radio on from the moment I leave the marina. It's set to scan 16/68/73/81. When I'm 30 or 40 or 50nm out to sea I want to know what other vessels are around, potential hazards and any other information that keeps me and my crew safe.
Starbug
Posts: 563
Date Joined: 27/08/09
It is required by law that
It is required by law that if you are in an area that requres you to have a radio. The radio must be switched on and tuned to either CH16 or the working login channel for that area.
Rob H
Posts: 5808
Date Joined: 18/01/12
as far as Im aware that is
as far as Im aware that is only commercial operators though it makes sense for it to cover everyone not only for monitoring distress but for shipping, law enforcement etc to contact you
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Starbug
Posts: 563
Date Joined: 27/08/09
Everyone. Navigable Waters
Everyone. Navigable Waters Act. 1958(2015) Reg 52BAB 2
And as you commented, it does make sense.
Rob H
Posts: 5808
Date Joined: 18/01/12
An example of the stuff
An example of the stuff heard on 16, a while back at the Abrolhos I could hear for a couple of hours 2 boats arranging to swap fish so they could stay inside their dhuie/trout limits.
All I could think was that if Fisheries hear this (and they are obliged to monitor 16)
they will be on top of all of us like a shower of shit looking for anything to pin on whoever.
NOT smart, and casts a shadow over every boat in the area...
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Wouldnt they (fisheries)
Wouldnt they (fisheries) have had RDF and radar on board? If they were in the vicinity they could well have nailed the dicks.
Fish! HARD!
Rob H
Posts: 5808
Date Joined: 18/01/12
I guess they probably would
I guess they probably would have, didnt see them around and they didnt turn up but I called and said the Port Authority were calling to get them to change channel.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Gertcha
Posts: 80
Date Joined: 05/05/14
just did my radio course with
just did my radio course with Fremantle Sea Rescue and cant say how grateful I am for their time and their training.
call them up and book a radio course
If you are in a hurry to use your radio you can check out this youtube
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+vhf+australia&qpvt=youtube+vhf+australia&view=detail&mid=4131B47D7AB4D06F47304131B47D7AB4D06F4730&FORM=VRDGAR
its this same one they get us to watch at the course. that should cover you for emergency situation.
but most of us here are serious about boating/fishing/diving , I think radio etiquette should be taken just as seriously.
Paul_86
Posts: 1449
Date Joined: 27/03/09
Anybody got any
Anybody got any recommendations of a decent VHF marine radio that won't break the bank? The GME ones are the cheapest at about $230, but are they any good? Or is it worth spending more and getting a Garmin or a raymarine for about $400? Currently only have a 27meg and after all this talk I'm keen to up the safety aspects as much as possible. Open to any other brand or model suggestions too.
Cheers
Rob H
Posts: 5808
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Any VHF is better than a UHF,
Any VHF is better than a UHF, start hunting around in the EOFYS sales and will likely pick up a bargain if you look over the next week?
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Paul_86
Posts: 1449
Date Joined: 27/03/09
Cheers I'll keep my eyes
Cheers I'll keep my eyes peeled for some sales
Starbug
Posts: 563
Date Joined: 27/08/09
Icom are the pick of the
Icom are the pick of the bunch.
resurgence
Posts: 578
Date Joined: 23/04/14
ICOM
ICOM make very good marine radios. I have an ICOM M423, does everything you could want - multiple channel monitoring, GPS enabled for DSC, etc. The M323 is similar but I needed the external command mic for a second station. The M423 is about $440 or so, M323 for about $380.
Deckie
Posts: 1296
Date Joined: 03/04/09
Lowrance.
I have a Lowrance Link 5 VHF in my Tinnie.
Whitworths have them for around the $250.00 mark.
Worth a look......
Can be linked to your GPS for emergency location, if required.
Cheers & Stay safe
Dale
Posts: 7930
Date Joined: 13/09/05
I wonder how licensing would go for us VK's around the place
"Just because you are a Character, Doesn't mean you have Character."
Mr Wolf
Starbug
Posts: 563
Date Joined: 27/08/09
In what way?
In what way?
Dale
Posts: 7930
Date Joined: 13/09/05
For a radio proficiency certificate.
"Just because you are a Character, Doesn't mean you have Character."
Mr Wolf
Starbug
Posts: 563
Date Joined: 27/08/09
VKs get no recognition of
VKs get no recognition of prior learning for marine radio certificates.
You should find the propagation/power supply/antenna theory easy, the only thing to realy test you would be the operating procedures, distress and urgency call procedures, and specific channel usages. None of which are hard. You just have to read and understand them.