damaged the genesis 5.2
Hi all went out on to SW bank on saturday got a few fish but what I saw when I put the boat on the trailer almost made me cry. It wasnt the calmest day Ive spent on the ocean but then again it wasnt the roughest day Ive been out. Heading out I sat on about 15knts and heading back into the easterlie I sat on10-12knts it was a long and slow trip out and and even longer trip back but at no time did I feel as though I had hit anything although being a alli boat u do get used to getting bashed around. But the damage that has been done I would of thought I would of felt it anyway heres the photos. I'm thinking I've hit a seal or dolphin but I kind of think a dolphin would be to smart to get hit by a boat going 10knts. Im just hopeing the insurance will fix it but also a little bit concerned about the strength of the fix I'm not a happy camper weather looks shed hot this sunday and my boat wont be touching the water. Does anyone know how this could be repaired properly? thnx
Play hard fish harder
biggerfish
Posts: 669
Date Joined: 02/03/09
forgot to add there is no
forgot to add there is no paint damage so i havent hit a mooring or float or anything it has really got me stuffed what i have hit only paint damage is right at the top were the in dent starts which is from the alli stretching
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Goodz
Posts: 2332
Date Joined: 20/07/09
Ouch, thats not nice Sean.
Ouch, thats not nice Sean. Definately strange that you didn't feel a big knock as you'd think it would need to be pretty solid to do that.
P.S. Finally got out there last Tues myself along with Fishoron but couldn't get onto much decant, just skippy and rat sambos. Thought it took long enough doing 20-25 knots, let alone 10!
biggerfish
Posts: 669
Date Joined: 02/03/09
yeah its a slow old trip out
yeah its a slow old trip out there if it wasnt for the damage i would say it was worth it i found a nice patch just behind the sw bank that was holding a heap of fish massive red snapper heaps of pink sanpper a few undersized duhies and had a few hits from some solid duhies but with such a quick drift i couldnt keep my bait there long enough for them to swallow it. But what i found at the boat ramp kind of dampened my day if it hadnt of been 5 weeks since id been out i wouldnt of even gone i'm speeeeeeewing. Just need a calm day and a spot on my mates boat and i will be hitting that spot again with the soft plastics
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carnarvonite
Posts: 8673
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Panel beater
Get a panel beater to have a look at it, might be able to use a porta power to push it back out.
southcity104
Posts: 1659
Date Joined: 27/01/09
Nah not good!!
I would have though it would have had to experience a solid hit to do damage like that. It looks like some kind of build fault. I run an ali jackman and its taken a real beating, ask my crew. They loathe me for flat out runs home in heavy seas. But the hull has no vissible distortion.
"Its a life style job"
strike_zone
Posts: 403
Date Joined: 09/09/10
build fault lol
how would you class that as a build fault im sure you would dent your jackman if you hit something
best recemendation would be to take it to the guys that built the boat and claim insurance there is no hole that i can see in it so there is no reason you cant still use it especially if some good weather comes up
Lastchance
Posts: 1273
Date Joined: 02/02/09
Good call....until its splits
Good call....until its splits along the reverse chine because it has been fatigued and the boat fills with water and sinks. Get it looked at now as this weekend wont be the last one with good weather.
If the dent is a mystery, there is no telling what else could be wrong with it.
biggerfish
Posts: 669
Date Joined: 02/03/09
cheers for the advice
cheers for the advice strikezone i thought about calling genesis craft but didnt know weather clubmarine would have their own repairers will lodge a claim with them first and then organise the repaires. I'm not to keen on heading out again before ive had it looked at i dont want the dent getting any bigger and the chyme is the structure of the boat so i dont want to make it any worse before it gets fixed but trust me it did cross my mind.
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Feral
Posts: 1508
Date Joined: 01/11/06
id be looking at the hull
id be looking at the hull inside and seeing if the ali didnt just pop in between 2 ribs .. the spacing shouldnt be that wide .. but you never know maybe the ribs didnt fit right on the hull and its easy enough to bend a falt sheet if there wasnt enough support behind it .. as for using it before its fixed - it wouldnt slow me down in the slightest .. its not going to get a hole in it unless you rally hit something hard .
smash
Posts: 434
Date Joined: 01/12/10
yep
had a fair bit to do with ali boats-Feral is right on the money I think.
Wouldnt mind betting there is no stringer behind there. You may be able to brace and push inside with both feet and find it "pops" out.
Speak to a panel beater-the same sort of damage on a car panel you would use a toilet plunger to pop out and never notice it again. Of course this takes more force but same effect.
It wont split if there is no fracture there now.
EDIT-looking closer, I see the chine is distorted. Quite likely a good boat builder can push it out smoothly with porta power, but Id go thru insurance-if he f++ks it up they wont cover it after.
And its better if its "log/impact damage" as a "structural failure/deficiency" almost certainly WONT be covered, in the way youve described.
biggerfish
Posts: 669
Date Joined: 02/03/09
At first I thought it was
At first I thought it was build fault but to bend the chyme like that wouldn't be possible from hitting waves the genesis are a solid boat if it was just the plate that was dented I would admit that it's build fault but as the chyme has bent it's definately impact damage.
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sunshine
Posts: 2627
Date Joined: 03/03/09
Clear impact damage
And I've only been in the insurance game 42 years - and, whilst I am not insured with them I can assure you that Club Marine will see you right no problems.
With the weather we have been having a log or large lump of timber would be my call (almost sunk as so laden with water) feels soft when you hit it but causes damage
spinksy
Posts: 266
Date Joined: 06/10/10
Second the log
Looks like log damage but i would only be quessing. Take the dog for walks on the beach this time of year and ther is a fair bit of wood washed up and some of it pretty big.... Being a boat owner it worries you what is floating out there!
Daisy
Posts: 789
Date Joined: 24/01/08
G'day Mate
G'day mate, sorry but that sort of damage doesn't look good. No exterior scuffing tells me that it could well wave impact and a clear design/build fault. ali when it's bent like that stretches so can't be pushed out without obvious rippling and further weakening of the area, as far as taking it out as is would be risky, depending on the amount of flexing on each impact (it's obviously moving) ali will work harden (this has probably already happened) and crack esp along the Chine and keel area. The waters down there can get nasty very quick and I'd hate to give advice that might lead to trajedy :-/. Listen to Last Chance he's had a fair bit to do with impact damage and knows his shit :-D
PS- Sorry mate but I'd fix it and sell it.
The view expressed in this post is that of a self opinionated bullshitter and does not reflect that of this website, it's owners, mediators, other members or anyone else for that matter :-P
kane
Posts: 1752
Date Joined: 07/12/08
100% agree
doesn't look good at all
Gooooone Fishin!
sea-kem
Posts: 15041
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Totally agree Daisy. As I
Totally agree Daisy. As I said in the other thread boat hitting whale. Marine grade ali doesn't like to bend much and once stretched that's it. It's a major repair. And also agree with wave damage. You could possibly push it out partway then bog and paint. I pity the poor soul who buys it though. As I said damage like this the boat should be written off.
Love the West!
strike_zone
Posts: 403
Date Joined: 09/09/10
what are you trying to do
daisey and sea kem what are you trying to do to the poor guy his boat is not that badly damaged and can be fixed quite easily under insurance nobody would write that off i think he was after some good advice not a dooms day notice for his boat
Daisy
Posts: 789
Date Joined: 24/01/08
Yeah I know I'm sounding like
Yeah I know I'm sounding like a panic merchant but we're talking about a boat this fella relies on to get him a considerable distance offshore and back safely, I'm only imparting my knowledge on the subject and don't intend to upset or disappoint Biggerfish. I would definately get it looked at by a boat builder/repairer before deciding to put it it back on the water.
The view expressed in this post is that of a self opinionated bullshitter and does not reflect that of this website, it's owners, mediators, other members or anyone else for that matter :-P
biggerfish
Posts: 669
Date Joined: 02/03/09
i appreciate everyones input
i appreciate everyones input thats for sure ive got a boat builder/repairer coming to have a look tomorrow i found it strange that clubmarine didnt have a prefered repairer it seems we have to find our own. and no i definately wont be heading out the way it is one bad hit by a wave and the alli could crack open
Play hard fish harder
sea-kem
Posts: 15041
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Just trying to do the righty
Just trying to do the righty mate. It's structural damage. So i'm guessing you know all about boat repairs? As Daisy said the guy goes out quite a way so you need to know you can rely on your boat. I think the fella even said it wasn't being worked that hard. If that was my boat I'd want some bloody good answers from the manufacturer. I hope they can fix it satisfactorily.
Love the West!
biggerfish
Posts: 669
Date Joined: 02/03/09
tried to contact genesis
tried to contact genesis craft today and apparently they have gone into receivership?? was going to get them to repaire it as they know the boat inside and out but i guess thats not possible.
Play hard fish harder
sea-kem
Posts: 15041
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Sorry to hear that bigger
Sorry to hear that bigger fish. Going through the same with a leather lounge we recently bought. The hide is damaged and we have been chasing them up for repair only to find out today they are in receivership (arseholes).
Love the West!
strike_zone
Posts: 403
Date Joined: 09/09/10
not in receivership
they have only changed ownership not recievership
sunshine
Posts: 2627
Date Joined: 03/03/09
You are in dream world
If you expect ANY insurer to write the boat off with such minor (and it is minor) damage - and I have blown the photos up and the second photo unless it is a very odd reflection would indicate to me impact with a log ..........I specialised in marine insurance for the first twenty years of my career and had the sense to move into far more difficult and complex areas (pay is better) but have seen plenty of damage of this type all of which has been successfully repaired
Daisy
Posts: 789
Date Joined: 24/01/08
It's a reflection, Biggerfish
It's a reflection, Biggerfish has already stated that there was no paint damage except at the very top of the dent where the angle of deflection has cracked the paint, it may have also been one off impact or a chronic battering over the trip home, what angle was the sea running on your way out and home Biggerfish?. Wouldn't expect a write off and not doubting your skill/experience as an insurer sunshine but I do know how ali behaves. Whichever way it was damaged this may be an easy fix cosmeticaly bogged and painted but structurally ???.
The view expressed in this post is that of a self opinionated bullshitter and does not reflect that of this website, it's owners, mediators, other members or anyone else for that matter :-P
biggerfish
Posts: 669
Date Joined: 02/03/09
I was heading straight into
I was heading straight into the seas as it was a easterlie the other side of the boat is perect no dents no sign of distortion and ive headed into worse conditions before. Daisy do u think that the plate could fold like that even with a 30 by 30 angle as the chyme im a pipefittter welder by trade and i know that alli isnt the strongest metal but surely with the preset curve and strength of the chyme u would need one hell of a wave to crush bend and dent the chyme and plate like that. I know it wont be a write off but i wish it could be as said before alli isnt a material that likes to be bent. the price of the boat has just lossed 10000 and when it does come to selling it i dont think i could selll it to someone knowing the damage it has occured. Oh well whats done is done no point crying over spilt milk can only hope the boat builders say its unrepairable.
Play hard fish harder
Daisy
Posts: 789
Date Joined: 24/01/08
Yep you know what your about
Yep you know what your about then Biggerfish, I hope there's a good way out this mate but you wont know until a builder/repairer has a look. The damage is a bit sus and wasn't my intention to stir you up.
Good luck with it, Daisy
The view expressed in this post is that of a self opinionated bullshitter and does not reflect that of this website, it's owners, mediators, other members or anyone else for that matter :-P
Rod P
Posts: 725
Date Joined: 20/05/08
I saw an ali boat once and it
I saw an ali boat once and it had been fishing out of Ocean Reef and he started to take in water. The hole in the boat was as if a star picket had been poked in to the bittom of the boat.
Cound'nt be explained either..
bulla
Posts: 87
Date Joined: 11/05/10
im a spraypainter by trade
worked alongside a an ali boatbuilder on a few builds .Just curious if the dent has pushed the floor in or up at all,or is the damage below floor level.My opinion,it had a big suck point in the sheetmetal before the chime was welded on and not enough ribs in the hull,i hope 4 your sake im wrong.Good luck with it!!
Stop complaining and get on with it !!
Rick
Posts: 1118
Date Joined: 22/12/06
Updates
biggerfish, mate that has to hurt looking at that. I wont even try and guess the reason behind it. Seems to be half saying design problem and the other half saying impact damage. Lack of damage to the paint is odd to me, know how easy it can chip off ali. Keep us informed on how you go with your claim which ever way you go. Good luck
PGFC Member
smash
Posts: 434
Date Joined: 01/12/10
its a chine!
not a chime or chyme!!!
kinda like calling a dhu a jew etc!
small point but calling it that when going to see a boatbuilder will probably have him thinking "gumby"!
Ally is a relatively pliable metal to a point-in this case while there may be a crack at the chine weld, Id doubt it.
If there is structure under the depression (frames etc) then its been hit pretty hard. Can you be certain someone hasnt backed into it beforegoing out?
If theres none it should be fairly simple for an experienced ally boatbuilder to push out-but SPEAK TO INSURANCE FIRST if you have any.
biggerfish
Posts: 669
Date Joined: 02/03/09
the dent is mainly above
the dent is mainly above floor level but the back part of the dent is under the floor and the floor does look as though its lifted a bit not much though
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uncle
Posts: 9507
Date Joined: 10/02/07
many years
a go my boat split open right down the middle length wise and sank, fixed by insurance and I still use it, you wouldn't believe the state of the workmanship under the floor. So much stronger now that it was rebuilt properly, must have been built on a friday!!!!!
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
biggerfish
Posts: 669
Date Joined: 02/03/09
was that a alli boat uncle
was that a alli boat uncle
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uncle
Posts: 9507
Date Joined: 10/02/07
yep
and that was 21 years ago, they completely rebuilt the section under the floor
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
squidder
Posts: 457
Date Joined: 03/09/10
Grass hopper
I seen a big Grass Hopper [Booma} do some damage just like that and after a days fishing all the scuff marks washed off. If theres no cracks I would go for a fish if it's calm.
Porta Power for me but be careful where they put the other end..
biggerfish
Posts: 669
Date Joined: 02/03/09
grass hopper (booma)???
grass hopper (booma)??? please explain squidder
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carnarvonite
Posts: 8673
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Kangaroo
Another name for kangaroo
biggerfish
Posts: 669
Date Joined: 02/03/09
of course derrrrrrrrrrr only
of course
derrrrrrrrrrr only lived in oz my whole life
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hemi
Posts: 349
Date Joined: 17/01/10
Far out I didnt realize ally
Far out I didnt realize ally is so unforgiving......lucky for insurance
smash
Posts: 434
Date Joined: 01/12/10
not really that
its not that its unforgiving, just very different to fibreglass in its structure/response.
Fibreglass will yield somewhat, but it doesnt have to go far to delaminate and lose its base strength.
Look at it this way. If you had a sledge hammer and tried to beat your way thru a glass boat hull, it wouldnt take too many hits. Do the same to ally and it will bend and yield, but without a sharp point, you'll be doing well to get thru 5mm plate.
Both have an advantage over the other.
You'd probably find that fibreglass distorted as far as that would be delaminating, where Id warrant that if the weld at the chine is solid, itd be as good as before the "incident".
whipasswaverunner
Posts: 181
Date Joined: 25/09/09
Genisis Craft
I just found a facebook page, that Genisis Craft is now under new ownership, so they are still open I guess.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Genesis-Craft/221407207899702
Some interesting photos too of progress shots during builds
Cheers.
scuttlebutt
Posts: 453
Date Joined: 24/03/06
Geez mate, nothing to get
Geez mate, nothing to get upset about there, get a soft cloth and some Nu-finish and that'll buff right out.
Nah, seriously, to me it looks like it's hit something but I wouldn't be slashing my wrists over it. Will be interesting to see what the repairer reckons.
biggerfish
Posts: 669
Date Joined: 02/03/09
Well I've had willy from
Well I've had willy from bullet boats out yesterday and mat from genesis out today and they both agreed that I've definately hit something and hit it hard too mat said either a rubber mooring or bouy or a mammal of some sort. I also remembered last night that I did nearly put my back out on the way back in when I went over some chop I just thought I had hit the chop in the wrong spot but I bet that's when I hit something as I usually stand up when I'm driving but I was sitting down this time I just thought the uncomftable bang was just cause I was sitting down. I stood up after that wonder if I was standing up weather I would of noticed it more.
Anyways mat from genesis is doing a quote for the repaire got two options panel beat the dent out and try and straighten the chyne but that would still be noticeable. So I suggested cutting out a section of the chyne pannel beating the dent and bogging any small distortions weld on a new chyne and give it a fresh coat of paint. As insurance will cover it we don't care how much $$$ it costs but we want it to look good again. Going to pay the extra ourselves to get the other side repainted too. He also said there's no structual damage so we could still use it before the repairs are done but I probably won't cause as mentioned before I do go out a long way and I'm nit 100./' that the boat is seaworthy ATM and I don't want to put my crews life in the hands of some 3mm alli. Thanks everyone for your advice
Play hard fish harder
smash
Posts: 434
Date Joined: 01/12/10
there ya go!
how were your (and who) insurance company?
Ive done a bit of alloy work but obviously those two guys will know more than me.
My thoughts would be that pushing it out and a little bog (if needed) would be quicker and easier than cutting out and replating due to distortion etc. However as said those 2 are the experts (and we havent seen inside) and Im sure will do the best job possible especially when the bill is being picked up by "the man"!
I would not be concerned in the slightest taking it out as is though.
Rick
Posts: 1118
Date Joined: 22/12/06
Good Outcome
Mate at least it is sorted now, the boat will soon be back like new and you will feel safe in it again
Cheers
PGFC Member
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
Glad to hear you getting it
Glad to hear you getting it all fixed and settled,
nothing worse than a mans pride & joy dinged!
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
constablechris
Posts: 27
Date Joined: 23/02/11
I'm gald its fixable for two
I'm gald its fixable for two reasons.
1. you wouldnt expect a boat to be a write off with such minor damage. Even if it involved the frame, they could remove frame, add new and add extra supports.
2. My boat wouldnt even be worth scrap at the recyclers cause I have at least 3 dents involving keel or chine larger than yours, and at least 4 on the base or side at least the size of yours, and I still use the boat on a regular basis in chopy water with no ill effects, other than the occasional groan or pop as the alloy moves.
But then again I only fish in croc infested waters with the occasonal underwater hazzard to add a new dent so maybe I shouldnt be using it....
Chris
constablechris
Posts: 27
Date Joined: 23/02/11
I'm gald its fixable for two
I'm gald its fixable for two reasons.
1. you wouldnt expect a boat to be a write off with such minor damage. Even if it involved the frame, they could remove frame, add new and add extra supports.
2. My boat wouldnt even be worth scrap at the recyclers cause I have at least 3 dents involving keel or chine larger than yours, and at least 4 on the base or side at least the size of yours, and I still use the boat on a regular basis in chopy water with no ill effects, other than the occasional groan or pop as the alloy moves.
But then again I only fish in croc infested waters with the occasonal underwater hazzard to add a new dent so maybe I shouldnt be using it....
Chris
GenesisCraft
Posts: 27
Date Joined: 03/08/11
Hi All
Well I would first like to say it has been interesting reading all of the reasons why we think this has occured. Let me just clear the air and say it was not a design/build/weld fault that part of a Genesis hull is super strong and there is no need for a rib or stringer in that area as the area itself isn't large enough to justify that.
A bit unlucky it didn't hit under the deck as here at Genesis we pride ourselves on making sure our underdeck strength is second to none and the user can be rest assured they are safe on a Genesis.
The good news is though that this can be fixed and will be fixed to point of the hull looking as it has just rolled off the production line. The welds were all inspected properly when the quote was done and the owners were assured there was no stress damage and everything was well intact it was just a big dent. It would have been fine to take out on the water still but I can understand why it hasn't been.
Genesis Craft Management
Brock O
Posts: 3259
Date Joined: 11/01/08
Lets Hope
Lets hope for a quick turn around, took him out for a fish for he was starting to get the shakes and he catches all the fish.
Three thumping snapper in one hour to my none, try do the right thing and catch f..k all!
clad its all sorted.
biggerfish
Posts: 669
Date Joined: 02/03/09
Why aren't u working brOk
Why aren't u working brOk must be hard having your job :-). Thanks genesis for your time spent so far on my tub wasn't expecting u to come to us to do the quote much appreciated
Play hard fish harder
GenesisCraft
Posts: 27
Date Joined: 03/08/11
No Problem
We hate not seeing a Genesis out on the water as much as the customer would so we are glad to help in any way possible!!
Genesis Craft Management