Cray blackmarket busted
Submitted by Dale on Wed, 2016-04-06 13:26
____________________________________________________________________________
"Just because you are a Character, Doesn't mean you have Character."
Mr Wolf
quadfisher
Posts: 1146
Date Joined: 28/09/10
He can talk!
Read lower , and the boots go in to the rec boys, by a commercial fisher no less.
How many years did the comm boys get it so good , rape and pillaging local dhuie stocks etc, with
there wet line licences, not to mention the money made by caccka selling , on the side for all those years.
Now the rec boys and girls can go out and get a decent feed , a just reward for the effort and money recquired to get them,
and some commercial dudes crying fowl?
Are there rec fishers going overboard , yep , but its a small bad apple group , that laws , bag limits etc
dont mean diddly too anyway.
Fisheries are there too manage it , and if its sustainable for the rec limit ( at the moment) to stay as it is ,
then I am happy with it.
And a big rasberry too those yanchep numnuts! who got caught .
quadfisher
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8156
Date Joined: 07/05/12
What ever happened to the
What ever happened to the surprise chef?
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
D_d_001
Posts: 1522
Date Joined: 09/03/13
his "ex fisherman friend's
his "ex fisherman friend's freezer is full!!
good on him..... most mortals like myself can only get out every now and then (yep some rec fisherman have work as well) ...maybe.... grab my 8 and that will be it for a while. what does he want to lower it to ....2 per day? make a great trip out for crays when the days allowance will only feed half the family for the night !
I'm sure David Thompson's Sarhara is now nearly a year old and needs to be renewed.
sea-kem
Posts: 15034
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Love the West!
quadfisher
Posts: 1146
Date Joined: 28/09/10
Hiding out in a rottnest cave?
www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/celebrity-chef-aristos-investigated-over-rottnest-crayfish-20150413-1mk92v.html
quadfisher
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
if he is quoted correctly mr
if he is quoted correctly mr Thompson below should be reminded one of the reasons his licence was granted initially is to supply the wa/Australian public market with lobster that essentialy belongs to them and which many of them don't or are not able to access
not sure how many boats /licences he has , but it is rumoured to be up to a dozen
the commercial operators take 95% of the wa catch , rec fishers get to only access 5 % of that allowed catch each year , at up to $90+ per kg the commercials must be doing it tough
now he would like our bag limits cut again ??? & he doesn't want to sacrifice his profit by selling to the wa public who own the resource that he lives and profits from ??
if he says it often enough loud enough , people will believe it and think the guys correct
the catch should be shared 50-50 , or commercials should be forced to set aside and sell a %of there catch to the wa market exclusively and bring the retail price of crays in the shops down to affordable levels for the public to buy , that would cut out the black market mostly
good result for fisheries with the sting too
hezzy
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-06/black-market-rock-lobster-trade-targeted-wa-fisheries-department/7304144
[to Debate over local rock lobster market
Rock lobster is one of the nation's most valuable single-species fisheries, with almost all of WA's catch exported live to markets in China.
There have long been calls for the development of a more affordable local market to be established, in part to drive down the cost for local crays and reduce the illegal trade of lobster.
Mr Thompson said commercial fishers should not have to sacrifice their profits.
"I definitely do not agree that we as the commercial side of it, or for that matter the recreational sector, have got to turn around and subsidise our resource to feed it to Joe public," he said.
"Because that's what it's worth, unfortunately. That's the game."]]
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
Rob H
Posts: 5810
Date Joined: 18/01/12
The present total catch seems
The present total catch seems to have plenty of room to allow Fisheries to issue some extra quota soley for local supply.
Fact is that it would only need to be a few tonnes to supply local and could be "lent" to a couple of willing fisherman.
Mr Thompson wont need to sacrifice his profits then
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
rob , as far as I'm concerned
rob , as far as I'm concerned they have enough of the %of allowable take now , that's at 95% compared to recs lowly 5%
they don't need more quota, they just need to be re educated on its allocation
If I was the minister I would legislate that all commercial rock lobster fishers must allocate 1% of their quota to the local Australian market
that would be enough to meet demand and could hardly inflict financial pain on their operations
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
Brody
Posts: 1025
Date Joined: 06/02/07
(No subject)
Rob H
Posts: 5810
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Just doesnt work that way
Just doesnt work that way Hezzy, and it would not be fair.
What about commercial guys who have bought/leased quota at a price, only to be legislated that you have to sell product at half the price?
It would require compensation, as it is not a management change made for the good of the fishery itself.
Dont get me wrong, Im not opposed to a scheme to supply crays at a reasonable price, but what you are suggesting is no different to council taking a piece of your land , and only paying 1/2 what you paid last week.
Just because Mr Thompson owns lots of quota and makes millions, doesnt make it fair to strip it off guys who are leasing/borrowing to keep their businesses going.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Rob H
Posts: 5810
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Also, if you look at this
Also, if you look at this proposal, there are other issues also that would need to be addressed.
Such as how to stop people driving around and buying up all the crays at the cheap price and exporting like baby milk powder?
Just not as simple as rip it off the fat cats and give it to the peasants...
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
have to disagree with the
have to disagree with the land analogy rob , as when you buy land you own it & anyone else can also have an opportunity to purchase it, as it is offered on the open market at any location across Australia , its not limited entry . land is being subdivide every week across Australia , cray licences are not
commercial cray licences are limited , yes you can purchase one , but as its a limited entry fishery , the gov has restricted the licences it allows to essentially harvest a public resource, , the licence allows access the buying selling of that access , the licence owner does not own the resource as you do with land .....we the public , via the gov always own the resource & therefore should be able to allocate its sustainable harvest in the way that best suits the resource and the stakeholders who own that resource
the licences are granted to harvest that resource for commercial sale to the public market , these licence holders do not invest in that resource other than to harvest it sustainably , & those regulations are imposed on them by the gov
imagine if the gov let me have a licence to remove sand from the beach for cheap landfill , no one else is allowed to just me .. as I don't own the beach & I'm just paying to take the sand cheaply , then re sell it to the highest bidder because its a cleaner finer product would it be reasonable for them to put conditions on my exclusive extraction licence ?? and stipulate I allocate 1%of what I take to be sold for wa kids sandpits at a lower rate than what I could sell it as landfill ??
id think so
to me its totally not a just proposition that one of the stakeholders [wa public ] is being priced out of accessing what is theirs because they cant access it due to price and lack of supply to the local market
anyway this is all semantics,bottom line is , commercials should not get more quota imo ,
there is enough quota available being commercialy harvested now all year round to supply what is needed to the wa market without bankrupting anyone commercialy involved ,
they just need to make it an acceptable priority and offer up a solution themselves that is workable for them imo ,
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
Rob H
Posts: 5810
Date Joined: 18/01/12
While they dont invest in
While they dont invest in the resource itself other than by paying large fees, some of which goes to research, they certainly do invest substantially in the marketing and transportation of the resource, which makes it worth what it is.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
all true rob recs licence
all true rob
recs licence money does the same thing with research etc
imo the ''value ''of the commercial crays is based hugely on it being a limited entry access fishery with a quota restricting supply of a premium lobster to the market ,
they have enhanced it ,but that is to drive their profitability , but the product is premium anyway
if as in the case of limited entry commercial salmon fishos in the southwest they had bugger all compensation /buy backs when the geo bay/capes where closed to commercial salmon fishing , purely by gov decree that it was a better use of the publics resource to change the access rights on who could fish where
difference was it was not a multi million dollar fishery that the gov had to change & remove access from , purely because the product is not a premium species thats easily marketable
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
Rob H
Posts: 5810
Date Joined: 18/01/12
they did or didnt?
they did or they didnt have a buyback/compensation?
If they did, there is the principal.
You are talking about a multi millionaire fisherman and generalising all fishermen-NOT all are multimillionaires.
What about the guys leasing?
This thinking of us and them is WAY past its use by date whether its from Thompson or Recfishwest or magazine writers.
While recs and pro bicker over a % or 2 of the fishery, PEW, Greens etc sneak around the side and shaft everyone-have you forgotten only 3 or so years back and the marine parks thing?
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
[rob h -- they did or they
[rob h -- they did or they didnt have a buyback/compensation?]
my old skipper was offered 5k for his licence ,the gov removed his access to fish between busso jetty and cape nato , purely because it was more vote catching to hand it over to exclusive rec fishos
[rob h --You are talking about a multi millionaire fisherman and generalising all fishermen-NOT all are multimillionaires.
What about the guys leasing?]
im talking about the fair & just allocation of a public resource that benefits all the wa public as best as it can which happens to be a multi million dollar fishery ,
quote me where i have generalised all cray boys are millionaires??
[rob h ---This thinking of us and them is WAY past its use by date whether its from Thompson or Recfishwest or magazine writers.]
strong and robust discussion about the IFM and the just and equal resource sharing of rock lobster imo is not based about them and us , it is about getting the best use of that rsource for the wa public who own it that includes recs & commercials a like , if some one is so precious that offends them , then thats their choice to be offended or take it personally
multi million dollar fisherys or any other resource type scenario is all about the money and politics , rec fishos historically have not been good at either imo ,
ime WAFIC have enough good men to respresent their interests when it matters
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
Rob H
Posts: 5810
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Maybe WAFIC will push this
Maybe WAFIC will push this through, if so great, they will be able to deal with it themselves.
But if it gets pushed through from the outside or by us, if my memory serves me correctly at the briefings the Profisherman held back on pushing for more so a change to the TAC that may have been at least a possibility.
This tells me that there is room to issue another % or 2, for the sole purpose of local supply.
This would avoid all the long term conflict, meetings, arguing, misinterpretation by Fisheries Ministers.
This whole discussion has been about one very rich fisherman, who has a possibly dodgy mate, who expressed his ill thought out opinion sparking this thread.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
stricko
Posts: 227
Date Joined: 10/05/10
Well said hezzy you guys are
Well said hezzy you guys are doing a great job by stating some of the facts .Some people don't understand it's our resource they are selling to everyone but us yet that's not enough they want exclusive rights to it wankers .
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
The resourse is there for everyone
Talk about greed, I wonder just how many cray fishermen this guy is supposed to talking for.
The allowance was only resurrected to the 8 crays per fisherman per day a couple of years back and we still don't catch our allocated 5 percent. I think this person believes that greed is good.
Rob H
Posts: 5810
Date Joined: 18/01/12
As far as I know he doesnt
As far as I know he doesnt speak for any beside the fact he has a processing factory.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Perry Home
Posts: 434
Date Joined: 07/10/10
He's probably referred to
as "Mr Gecko" in the industry. Well said Hezzy, well said!
out wide
Posts: 1535
Date Joined: 30/12/08
Totally agree with you
Totally agree with you hezzy..and I and many more i'm sure would like to see it increased to 10 per day. The costs involved to get your bag is very high. 10 per day would ease the costs for me. Dunno about you but I spend shit loads to get my crays. [Feeds our family ] Gotta be good for the economy. A lot of businesses win because of us. Just reading what that greedy F**ker has to say nearly makes me sick.
sea-kem
Posts: 15034
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Bang on mate
You're a Docker supporter I could come to like
Love the West!
jamey ford
Posts: 174
Date Joined: 25/05/11
Well said Hezzy keep up the
Some good points raised hereI
Far Quirk!
jamey ford
Posts: 174
Date Joined: 25/05/11
Well said Hezzy keep up the
Well said Hezzy keep up the good work mate ,bloody commercials are riding a gravy train ,now more so than ever .I totally agree with a catch allocation to look after the local people, )who afterall own the resouce) at a decent affordable price, this in turn would help reduce the black market dramatically, great thinking .
As an aside interesting article about Aristos pinching crays from others pots funnily enough we lost 4 pots over easter close to Rotto
, They were very well weighted, pro type steel bottom pots ,had plenty of rope on them with very visible floats ,20ltre yellow containers with reflective tape on them, as well as polyfloats with lic no on them , so if you ran em over you're blind ,been at this caper for quite a few years and do well so know what's required , the pots were also engraved with lic numbers as well, if I ever find any body with them lookout .
Far Quirk!
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
Resources for locals
Forgive me if I'm wrong but didn't the WA government make Gorgon or 1 of the big gas exporters retain 10% of the gas produced for the local market to ensure that the local market benefited from it's (WA owned) gas.
Certainly those who put up the big bucks to catch,mine produce a should get what the market will pay for their product.
However these producers should never forget just whos' resource they are exporting, and yes I know they pay the government for export licences and royalties etc, they are also making a quite hansom return on their endeavours.
This does not give them a licence to totally by pass the local market, should they be required to set aside some of the resource for the local market, I think so.
The gas produces are required too so why not others, compensate them for this requirement, no I don't think so
if you don't like or can't accept this requirement go some where else for your lively hood.
There are plenty of countries to our north just waiting for a chance to enter these industries and comply with what ever conditions prevail.
Rob H
Posts: 5810
Date Joined: 18/01/12
totally different to say to
totally different to say to a gas producer, here you can develop this resource but need to supply 10% local than to take it afterwards wouldnt you think?
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
crasny1
Posts: 7004
Date Joined: 16/10/08
I might be wrong
but it was Pluto and Woodside, but might be Gorgon to. It was to stop the crisis that happened when veranus Island had the explosion. So to secure WA energy needs.
I don't know if the Gas is charged at a lower rate versus that exported to Japan etc.
Basically as a local resource (edit) Crays which most cant afford or go to catch, it would be nice to see some allocated to WA only.
I remember the old days when you could rock up to the boats coming in and get a cray or 2 straight off the boat. Was cheaper then because the fisherman still got a good price, but the middle man was cut out.
Now the "trucks" are there waiting and if the skipper tried to sell the catch to Joe Bloggs he gets in trouble with the processor.
Removing this hurdle to be able to bye direct from the fisherman would still ensure the catcher gets his $ and the price would drop. The middle man is the ones that in theory would loose out, but they are the ones with the power.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
Rob H
Posts: 5810
Date Joined: 18/01/12
agree Crasn, but it
agree Crasn, but it certainly is not the processor.
If the fisherman sells direct to you, it bypasses the quota system.
Must be landed in sealed baskets and weighed at the factory
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
crasny1
Posts: 7004
Date Joined: 16/10/08
wasnt aware of that
So is it illegal for them to sell to the public off the boat?
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
Rob H
Posts: 5810
Date Joined: 18/01/12
most definitely
most definitely
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
sphere
Posts: 101
Date Joined: 07/01/15
Gas reservation
Gallop introduced the domestic gas reservation policy when in. As far as I know the only state/territory to have such policy.
From memory if if a state gas field is producing gas a %age must be reserved for domestic use. The NW Shelf gas venture has it, Gorgon, Browse would of had it, Macedon feeds into the Dampier-Bunbury pipeline, as does Varanus and I think a few others, some now not producing.
paul d
Posts: 255
Date Joined: 16/03/13
I think fisheries could take
I think fisheries could take a small percentage of the quota from each commercial operator that send most of their catch overseas and set up licences for a commercial sector that supplies local market only with a reduced pot licence fee and a small quota to sell at a price locals could afford.
Rob H
Posts: 5810
Date Joined: 18/01/12
That is basically the idea,
That is basically the idea, except a process would also need to be in place to stop people (chinese?) driving around and buying them all up at half the market price, and selling them on.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
crasny1
Posts: 7004
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Simple
Process, ie sell them as cooked (if I had to buy cray's would prefer live) so the onselling wont happen
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
Rob H
Posts: 5810
Date Joined: 18/01/12
not sure how that would stop
not sure how that would stop onselling?
They are sold overseas cooked
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
stricko
Posts: 227
Date Joined: 10/05/10
Non argument who are these
Non argument who are these Chinese going to sell them to without sending them out of country that's why we have customs.
Rob H
Posts: 5810
Date Joined: 18/01/12
why would Customs stop
why would Customs stop anyone taking them out of the country?
It is not illegal to take seafood out, or export it.
Could even just be taken to the East Coast.
I have taken seafood to NZ, you dont even get checked or questioned on the way out other than "do you have any aerosols" etc
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
sea-kem
Posts: 15034
Date Joined: 30/11/09
One thing Mr Thompson
One thing Mr Thompson forgets is the econic benefits of the rec cray industry to the general community right through from craypot manufacturers, bait suppliers, boats sellers, fark I could go on and on. Like Outwide said it aint a cheap exercise to go and catch a few crays when all's said and done and we are probably checked and more regulated than the pros for our pissy 5% which we probably don't even make as a quota each year.
The mate he talks about obviously has the opportunity to get out regularly not like me where it can be up to threes weeks for a pot pull.
Btw mine are in now as I've had a reasonable year and shared some great meals with friends who could never afford to buy the bloody things (even the imported shite) forget about fresh local crays. And thanks Mr Thompson for garnering communtity support you obviously don't give a rats apart form the profits of your enterprise.
Love the West!
sphere
Posts: 101
Date Joined: 07/01/15
Price of crays
Whilst I do enjoy the odd cray roll, pasta, bbq etc I cannot afford to pay $90/kg in the shops on a regular basis as much as I get them diving. We are quite lucky whereby we live in a country and can catch our own seafood.
In my view it is not about the dollar value going out more the experience, if I wanted the financial reward means I would attempt to get a job crayfishing or in the professional fishing industry. And from many moons back it was long hours, months away, not a financial rewarding job all the time. Recreational fishing in my view as long as I'm not getting a new mortgage is experiential, sometimes I go home empty and it makes me appreciate how good life is when I get a good feed.
I like the idea to put aside a small percentage for local market so all can enjoy the resource, particularly the people who don't own boats go diving or cannot simply afford it. In some respects its part of what I think is living in WA and would like to think all can enjoy and appreciate it.
However any action causes a reaction, and balance required. The people leasing pots do pay a reasonable amount to lease pots and no doubt they want their business secure from external decisions and impacts. Not sure what the pot price is but I'd imagine prohibitive for new entrants.
I think education would fix the issue. Not sure how much a percentage is required or how the cost impact would be. I don't think Mr Thompson would be hard done by though, but many others in the industry may. His remarks remind me of Jabba Hutt and other rent seekers. Just greedy, self interest, and not thinking about the how the balance can be for all. I'm alright Jack fuck what everyone else wants
Wilzee
Posts: 93
Date Joined: 10/12/14
Hard done by ? "Just
Hard done by ?
"Just greedy, self interest, and not thinking about the how the balance can be for all. I'm alright Jack fuck what everyone else wants" Sounds like the right attributes to enter politics.
"My greatest problem lies in reconciling my net income with my gross habits"
Rob H
Posts: 5810
Date Joined: 18/01/12
At the end of the day Mr
At the end of the day Mr Thompsons "ex fisherman friend" has a possession limit which he is either breaching, or he has a large family (like me) in which case he is able to possess more?
If Mr Thompson was serious he would dob him in...
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
further to the IFM on rock
further to the IFM on rock lobster and ho the TOTAL ALLOWABLE CATCH is shared between commercials and recs this fisheries paper from 2013 explains in more detail their draft plan for the next 5 years from that date
worth a read if you are at all interested , and you will see recs catch level is set by the commercials as a % of their total allowable catch ,which is set by the dept if they choose to take less for commercial reasons , then we automatically also get less
below is one small extract on how commercial rock lobster industry fishers seek funding
hezzy
www.fish.wa.gov.au/Documents/management_papers/fmp263.pdf
Allocation of quota to the Western Rock Lobster Council The western rock lobster industry has many issues to address that require funding, but it is not always available from third parties such as Government or the Fisheries Research and Development Corporation (FRDC).
Some projects need to be funded on a one-off basis; others as continuing programs. Some projects identified by the WRLC include: • continuation of the tag program to collect more data on movement of lobster; • additional breeding stock analysis; extra puerulus monitoring; • gear modifications for whale entanglement minimisation; • investigating marketing issues; • industry representative staff and director training (e.g. corporate governance); • legal advice/representation; • MSC certification cost.
One method of raising capital to finance these projects is by way of a compulsory unit levy. This has been done in the past, however, it is not popular and requires Ministerial approval. As part of this process, the Minister must consider the opinion of the Regulatory Gatekeeping Unit (Western Australian Department of Finance), which aims to reduce the regulatory burden on business. The Regulatory Gatekeeping Unit has previously questioned why Government should impose a compulsory levy on industry to fund industry-led projects. Fisheries Management Paper 263 Page 12
An alternate method of raising funds for important industry initiatives could be through an allocation of a small percentage of lobster quota (by allocating additional units of entitlement) to the WRLC. The WRLC has suggested that it be allocated 0.5% of the quota in each zone above the usual allocation. This would provide the WRLC with an independent reliable source of revenue via leasing the quota to fishers. The WRLC has proposed that monies generated from leasing quota would go into a trust fund administered by the Council’s Board of Directors.
To facilitate the WRLC’s proposal, it would be necessary to allocate units to the WRLC under the West Coast Rock Lobster Managed Fishery Management Plan 2012 (management plan). As the commercial fishery’s share of the western rock lobster resource is fully allocated, an increase in the number of units in each zone would result in a very small reduction in kg/unit compared to what would have been the case if units had not been allocated to the WRLC.
The WRLC has indicated that it would be willing to investigate mechanisms to reduce the small financial impact on fishers (e.g. over the course of time the WRLC could utilise a portion of the revenue raised each year to actually buy units. The units allocated to the WRLC could then be surrendered meaning that over time, the units held by the WRLC would no longer have any impact on unit values).
Fisheries Management Paper 263
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing