atm lifes pretty cheap. terrible news, when I first saw this[half asleep]there was something on tv about a black box, I thought they had found flight 370
This shooting down of the Malaysian airliner is such a tragedy and a crime of murder. Only one person to blame out of all of this and that's Vladimir Putin. He should hang his head in utter shame and be tried for murder. He alone controls these rebels and feeds them weapons and supplies. A disgrace on a world scale. Condolences to all the families involved. A sad day indeed.
Let's not call them terrorists or rebels. Let's call them what they are.... murderers. Mass murderers. Thoughts are with the victims and their families and loved ones.
My wife and I have just seen the photos on the news. Nicks wife taught my wife years ago at perth college. We sat opposite nick and his wife years ago at a sailing presentation dinner at Augusta where morgan had been sailing.
RIP Nick. May justice be come to those responsible.
No not negligent because those routes were cleared to fly by the CAA. The airline had every right to fly over there like countless other airlines that would have . I have no doubt it's a jet stream.
Considering the other major airlines had deemed the flight path unsafe and abandoned flyimg along it since april, you would think MH would have followed suit, especially in light of their recent history.
Thing is Ben as has been reported many other airlines had been using that route as well. It boils down whichever way you look at it as an act of murder and those arrogant Russian bastards have blood on their hands. You could blame the aviation authority that deemed that flight path safe but what's the point? You know Northbridge is a risk at night, you should be safe but get bashed. Does that make you negligent in looking after your safety?
Let's not look to lay blame where ever we can. The only ones to blame are those who fired the missile. Should we blame those who supplied it? Do we blame gun shop owners when someone gets shot? Not normally. Weapons only become dangerous when they are in the wrong hands.
Understand your points of view and ultimately the Russians need to take some responsibility (which up to now they refuse to do) but with 2 other planes shot down in the area over the past week, I wouldn't even fly a kite on that flight path yet alone a commercial airliner!
randall , sorry mate but iv got to call that as bs , putin is responsible for mass murder simple as
the Russian gov has been systematically attempting to destabilise Ukraines donbass region since early april after it invaded and annexed crimea ,
the russian gov is aiding terrorism on a sovereign country , that is illegal under international law etc etc ,
it is formenting unrest with a desired outcome on a foreign sovereign country , that is exactly how hitler started off ww2
it is simply not good enough to hope this will go away by not calling a spade a spade, yes its along way from Australia , but it is affecting people from here and all over the world ,
they should stand up and make him accountable on this
the terrorists who fired that buk missile would not be there if they had not been recruited and paid from within Russia and supplied with those weapons illegally
you cannot compare it to a legal sale of a firearm here under our laws etc etc
not even in the same ballpark
I don't disagree with what you say. But that is a political argument. Introducing politics, introduces ideology and the media start using terms such as rebels, separatists, terrorists... When all they are, are mass murderers. The criminals who fired the missile are simply mass murderers and should be tried and convicted of mass murder.
Back in the 80s, the British government came to an agreement with the British media. The media stopped referring to the IRA by name. They just became criminals.
That's what these people are. Criminals.
Yes the international community need to hold Russia to account. And putin should be made to attend the g20, and explain himself.
But as a community, let's stop validating these people's causes by calling them rebels or separatists.
These Rebels are living in area of such poverty yet they have the kit to take a plane out at 35000 feet, they received it from Russia obviously the only one capable of this type of kit.
you know ben85 there was a virgin flight within 20km of mh 17 when it was hit and other airlines close by as well ?
commercial flights where cleared to fly this route at 33000 feet, they where above the closed zone and with transponders working where easily identifiable to all legal radar in the vicinity as civilian
the Russian terrorists are responsible here for murder same as vladamiravich putin , he authorised these buk missiles to them however he didnt give them the ability to detect if planes where military or civilian ,
deepest condolences to all familys with loved ones needlessly shot down and killed in this atrocity
Its a sad reminder that in this day and age that some parts of the world make every endeavour to sustain life and value the human form, then events like we have seen today occur and we are reminded that there are simplistic groups of people that harbour ideologies that the rest of us let go hundreds of years ago.
Mates of mine were on the same flight number/destination 2 weeks ago. Brings a distant event home pretty quickly.
condolances to all that have suffered loss out of this.
My sincere condolences to the families and friends who have lost loved ones in this tragic incident.
The channel seven news coverage of a radio intercept throws doubt on the identification of the aircraft type by the person in charge of firing the missile that shot the aircraft down.
IMO Surprised expressed at the finding of civilian bodies in the wreckage.
Battery commander is surprised at number of civilian deaths and then the realisation of the fact a civilian aircraft has been shot down.
All the posts expressing outrage at this latest shooting down of a large passenger aircraft should look at the history of recent similar events.
It is an outrage that in all cases no one is held to account for these tragic events.
1968 US aircraft shoots up HMAS Hobart result 2 dead 8 wounded no one is held to account.
1983 KAL flight 007 shot down by USSR aircraft, all on board loose their life, result no one held to account.
1988 USS Vincennes shoots down Iranian A300 aircraft all passengers loose their lives. Hey we thought it was an F14 fighter.
Result No one is held to account.
Sadly I believe the same thing will happen again.
No one will be held to account.
If people are shooting at each other in an area, stay well away from that area.
Just been reading some more of the story on Time magazines web www.time.com and the photo gallery on there is quite chilling with how bodies rained down crashing through the roofs of houses and landing in people's backyards. What a shocking way to go. The people of these regions are quite poor, so bodies and wreckage has probably been pilfered. I really hope someone is brought to account for this and Putin is also brought to justice, he treats these conflicts in Ukraine and Syria like is own personal war game and when everything begins to die down, he does something to ramp it up again, like throwing petrol onto a fire and then stands back and denies it all. The world has no space for that guy and the sooner he is gone, the world will be a better place.
Saw some cctv footage of the rocket launcher on the back of a prime mover heading back towards Russia, no doubt to get all the evidence of Russia being involved as the supplier and operator of it.
your not quite right mate
[1988 USS Vincennes shoots down Iranian A300 aircraft all passengers loose their lives. Hey we thought it was an F14 fighter.
Result No one is held to account.]
yes the yanks where held to account , they did pay out compensation to victims familys over time
if you investigate the vincennes files account of the incident the plane did not respond to them when called , it showed a pure cluster cuf of communication between them and the airliner for some reason did not have the right transponder turned on
in this case the Russian gov should clearly be held accountable
while the salarys of the Ukrainians in this area may be low , their moral code in the main ime is very good
You are 100 percent right Hezzy the US did pay compensation and there was a complete stuff up with the planes transponder read out. In the same article that I read that detailed the event it also stated that the compensation payout was in no way to be taken as an admission of guilt, just how they separate the two I don't know.
The article also stated that the Iranian aircraft was shot down by a shoulder launched surface to air missile as the aircraft was out of the envelope of the larger SAM. All I was trying to make known that this type of event most unfortunately is no a one off thing.
Let me state clearly I think that it should not go unpunished, nor should it be considered something that happens in the grey mist of war. People pushed the launch button and they must should be held to account.
The people who gave permission for civilian aircraft to fly in an area were 3 military aircraft had been shot down in the preceding weeks should also be held to account.
As I said in my previous post, if people are shooting at each other stay away from that area.
Shocking stuff.... Such a tragic loss of so many innocent people.
One of the young Perth boys was from my boys' junior footy club....
Black armbands for tomorrow's games. :(
This is going from bad to worse, the rebels are not letting investigators in, I read something this morning that the bodies were retrieved and stacked on top of each other on the side of the road, when a truck was backing to load the corpses, the truck has reversed over one of them. What the hell is happening here. What have these rebel fighters got to hide?
you linked earlier says the truck stopped a short distance from the bodies, not actually running over any.
what a horrible place to be born into, we are so lucky.
RIP all on the plane.
tot im guessing you have never been there to make such a comment out of ignorance ... Ukraine in summer now is a beautifull place and the people great
rolling hills full of sunflowers and wheat, very much like out mid west actually with canola and wheat
it is not a horrible place at all , nor are the local Ukraine people ,it is different to here yes , but essentially the people are very similar in their values
what people should understand is these rebels/terrosrist/mass murderers are mostly from Russia and other former soviet states , they are the extreme nationalists who have been fed apropganda diet of mis information and lies and about saving their Russian speaking citizens in these parts of Ukraine , tey have been recruited from within Russia , most are Russian citizens, all the main leaders of these bastards are Russians with a link the Russian special services /kgb or karga bear military intelligence units
they are not in the main Ukrainians
to fire a sophisticated weapon like a buk system at a relatively small target like a boeing 33,000 feet up when its moving at approx. 760 kmh it takes specialist military training ,
do people honestly think the average separatist has that level of skill , even if somehow they could buy that weapon at the corner shop ?? which you cant
this is the work from within the russian special force units ,
Ukraine seems to be doing the best it can with little help militarily from the outside world , even though the big powers promised them help under the Budapest memorandum when they gave up their stockpile of nuclear weapons in the 90s at the west request,
which was the the 3rd largest in the world , Russia would not be doing this shite if ukraine still had nukes
and yes we are lucky to be born here , Australia has never had to experience war to this scale on its own soil , it takes a bit of understanding to get your head around how a powerfull country like Russia can just bully you by driving across your border and invading covertly .this is whats happening here
I was talking politically not geographically.
it would not be good to have neighbouring countries that give little respect and run rampant at their own will.
im sure it is a beautiful country, sorry if offended.
just remember its media driven, never let the truth get in the way of a good story [not talking about the shooting down of the plane] but anything after that could be emblished
.thumbnail.JPG "Winning \"general\" photo - Dazza #2 - FW Exxy comp 09")
uncle
Posts: 9507
Date Joined: 10/02/07
with all thats going on in this world
atm lifes pretty cheap. terrible news, when I first saw this[half asleep]there was something on tv about a black box, I thought they had found flight 370
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
sea-kem
Posts: 15043
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Only one person to blame
This shooting down of the Malaysian airliner is such a tragedy and a crime of murder. Only one person to blame out of all of this and that's Vladimir Putin. He should hang his head in utter shame and be tried for murder. He alone controls these rebels and feeds them weapons and supplies. A disgrace on a world scale. Condolences to all the families involved. A sad day indeed.
Love the West!
flexn
Posts: 232
Date Joined: 19/03/12
Yeah especially considering
Yeah especially considering where the rebels get their weapons from.
chris raff
Posts: 3257
Date Joined: 09/02/10
Probably not a good idea to
Probably not a good idea to route over a war zone as well .. condolences to all , a few people from perth also on board they’re saying ..
“Intelligence is like a four-wheel drive. It only allows you to get stuck in more remote places.”
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Let's not call them
Let's not call them terrorists or rebels. Let's call them what they are.... murderers. Mass murderers. Thoughts are with the victims and their families and loved ones.
Fish! HARD!
Swompa
Posts: 3912
Date Joined: 14/10/12
RIP SOPYC member Nick
RIP SOPYC member Nick Norris....
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
My wife and I have just seen
My wife and I have just seen the photos on the news. Nicks wife taught my wife years ago at perth college. We sat opposite nick and his wife years ago at a sailing presentation dinner at Augusta where morgan had been sailing.
RIP Nick. May justice be come to those responsible.
:(
Fish! HARD!
Swompa
Posts: 3912
Date Joined: 14/10/12
I knew his daughter quite
I know his daughter quite well. So sad.
Ben85
Posts: 442
Date Joined: 20/11/11
Yeah I agree, but pretty
Yeah I agree, but pretty negligent of the airline to take the route it did. Probably trying to save a few bucks in fuel.
sea-kem
Posts: 15043
Date Joined: 30/11/09
No not negligent because
No not negligent because those routes were cleared to fly by the CAA. The airline had every right to fly over there like countless other airlines that would have . I have no doubt it's a jet stream.
Love the West!
Ben85
Posts: 442
Date Joined: 20/11/11
Considering the other major
Considering the other major airlines had deemed the flight path unsafe and abandoned flyimg along it since april, you would think MH would have followed suit, especially in light of their recent history.
sea-kem
Posts: 15043
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Thing is Ben as has been
Thing is Ben as has been reported many other airlines had been using that route as well. It boils down whichever way you look at it as an act of murder and those arrogant Russian bastards have blood on their hands. You could blame the aviation authority that deemed that flight path safe but what's the point? You know Northbridge is a risk at night, you should be safe but get bashed. Does that make you negligent in looking after your safety?
Love the West!
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Let's not look to lay blame
Let's not look to lay blame where ever we can. The only ones to blame are those who fired the missile. Should we blame those who supplied it? Do we blame gun shop owners when someone gets shot? Not normally. Weapons only become dangerous when they are in the wrong hands.
Fish! HARD!
Ben85
Posts: 442
Date Joined: 20/11/11
Understand your points of
Understand your points of view and ultimately the Russians need to take some responsibility (which up to now they refuse to do) but with 2 other planes shot down in the area over the past week, I wouldn't even fly a kite on that flight path yet alone a commercial airliner!
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
randall , sorry mate but iv
randall , sorry mate but iv got to call that as bs , putin is responsible for mass murder simple as
the Russian gov has been systematically attempting to destabilise Ukraines donbass region since early april after it invaded and annexed crimea ,
the russian gov is aiding terrorism on a sovereign country , that is illegal under international law etc etc ,
it is formenting unrest with a desired outcome on a foreign sovereign country , that is exactly how hitler started off ww2
it is simply not good enough to hope this will go away by not calling a spade a spade, yes its along way from Australia , but it is affecting people from here and all over the world ,
they should stand up and make him accountable on this
the terrorists who fired that buk missile would not be there if they had not been recruited and paid from within Russia and supplied with those weapons illegally
you cannot compare it to a legal sale of a firearm here under our laws etc etc
not even in the same ballpark
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
I don't disagree with what
I don't disagree with what you say. But that is a political argument. Introducing politics, introduces ideology and the media start using terms such as rebels, separatists, terrorists... When all they are, are mass murderers. The criminals who fired the missile are simply mass murderers and should be tried and convicted of mass murder.
Back in the 80s, the British government came to an agreement with the British media. The media stopped referring to the IRA by name. They just became criminals.
That's what these people are. Criminals.
Yes the international community need to hold Russia to account. And putin should be made to attend the g20, and explain himself.
But as a community, let's stop validating these people's causes by calling them rebels or separatists.
They are murderers. And they are responsible.
Fish! HARD!
Lowza
Posts: 136
Date Joined: 30/10/11
Rebels
These Rebels are living in area of such poverty yet they have the kit to take a plane out at 35000 feet, they received it from Russia obviously the only one capable of this type of kit.
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
you know ben85 there was a
you know ben85 there was a virgin flight within 20km of mh 17 when it was hit and other airlines close by as well ?
commercial flights where cleared to fly this route at 33000 feet, they where above the closed zone and with transponders working where easily identifiable to all legal radar in the vicinity as civilian
the Russian terrorists are responsible here for murder same as vladamiravich putin , he authorised these buk missiles to them however he didnt give them the ability to detect if planes where military or civilian ,
deepest condolences to all familys with loved ones needlessly shot down and killed in this atrocity
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
Lastchance
Posts: 1273
Date Joined: 02/02/09
Its a sad reminder that in
Its a sad reminder that in this day and age that some parts of the world make every endeavour to sustain life and value the human form, then events like we have seen today occur and we are reminded that there are simplistic groups of people that harbour ideologies that the rest of us let go hundreds of years ago.
Mates of mine were on the same flight number/destination 2 weeks ago. Brings a distant event home pretty quickly.
condolances to all that have suffered loss out of this.
Daisy
Dale
Posts: 7930
Date Joined: 13/09/05
.
These things always seem to happen when I'm due to fly, but I'm happy to say my plane, as small as it was, got us home safely to Busso this evening.
Cheers
Dale
"Just because you are a Character, Doesn't mean you have Character."
Mr Wolf
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
An inconvient truth
My sincere condolences to the families and friends who have lost loved ones in this tragic incident.
The channel seven news coverage of a radio intercept throws doubt on the identification of the aircraft type by the person in charge of firing the missile that shot the aircraft down.
IMO Surprised expressed at the finding of civilian bodies in the wreckage.
Battery commander is surprised at number of civilian deaths and then the realisation of the fact a civilian aircraft has been shot down.
All the posts expressing outrage at this latest shooting down of a large passenger aircraft should look at the history of recent similar events.
It is an outrage that in all cases no one is held to account for these tragic events.
1968 US aircraft shoots up HMAS Hobart result 2 dead 8 wounded no one is held to account.
1983 KAL flight 007 shot down by USSR aircraft, all on board loose their life, result no one held to account.
1988 USS Vincennes shoots down Iranian A300 aircraft all passengers loose their lives. Hey we thought it was an F14 fighter.
Result No one is held to account.
Sadly I believe the same thing will happen again.
No one will be held to account.
If people are shooting at each other in an area, stay well away from that area.
sea-kem
Posts: 15043
Date Joined: 30/11/09
And if we all have to
And if we all have to accept that apathetic truth Megladon then this planet is truly fucked!!
Love the West!
scotto
Posts: 2472
Date Joined: 21/04/08
Kenoath
Seakem
Dale
Posts: 7930
Date Joined: 13/09/05
.
Just been reading some more of the story on Time magazines web www.time.com and the photo gallery on there is quite chilling with how bodies rained down crashing through the roofs of houses and landing in people's backyards. What a shocking way to go. The people of these regions are quite poor, so bodies and wreckage has probably been pilfered. I really hope someone is brought to account for this and Putin is also brought to justice, he treats these conflicts in Ukraine and Syria like is own personal war game and when everything begins to die down, he does something to ramp it up again, like throwing petrol onto a fire and then stands back and denies it all. The world has no space for that guy and the sooner he is gone, the world will be a better place.
"Just because you are a Character, Doesn't mean you have Character."
Mr Wolf
carnarvonite
Posts: 8673
Date Joined: 24/07/07
CCTV Footage
Saw some cctv footage of the rocket launcher on the back of a prime mover heading back towards Russia, no doubt to get all the evidence of Russia being involved as the supplier and operator of it.
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
meglodon , your not quite
meglodon ,
your not quite right mate
[1988 USS Vincennes shoots down Iranian A300 aircraft all passengers loose their lives. Hey we thought it was an F14 fighter.
Result No one is held to account.]
yes the yanks where held to account , they did pay out compensation to victims familys over time
if you investigate the vincennes files account of the incident the plane did not respond to them when called , it showed a pure cluster cuf of communication between them and the airliner for some reason did not have the right transponder turned on
in this case the Russian gov should clearly be held accountable
while the salarys of the Ukrainians in this area may be low , their moral code in the main ime is very good
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
MH 17 shoot down
You are 100 percent right Hezzy the US did pay compensation and there was a complete stuff up with the planes transponder read out. In the same article that I read that detailed the event it also stated that the compensation payout was in no way to be taken as an admission of guilt, just how they separate the two I don't know.
The article also stated that the Iranian aircraft was shot down by a shoulder launched surface to air missile as the aircraft was out of the envelope of the larger SAM. All I was trying to make known that this type of event most unfortunately is no a one off thing.
Let me state clearly I think that it should not go unpunished, nor should it be considered something that happens in the grey mist of war. People pushed the launch button and they must should be held to account.
The people who gave permission for civilian aircraft to fly in an area were 3 military aircraft had been shot down in the preceding weeks should also be held to account.
As I said in my previous post, if people are shooting at each other stay away from that area.
Dizzy
Posts: 753
Date Joined: 21/02/11
Shocking stuff.... Such a
Shocking stuff.... Such a tragic loss of so many innocent people.
One of the young Perth boys was from my boys' junior footy club....
Black armbands for tomorrow's games. :(
Dale
Posts: 7930
Date Joined: 13/09/05
.
This is going from bad to worse, the rebels are not letting investigators in, I read something this morning that the bodies were retrieved and stacked on top of each other on the side of the road, when a truck was backing to load the corpses, the truck has reversed over one of them. What the hell is happening here. What have these rebel fighters got to hide?
"Just because you are a Character, Doesn't mean you have Character."
Mr Wolf
tot
Posts: 1162
Date Joined: 31/01/10
the time article
you linked earlier says the truck stopped a short distance from the bodies, not actually running over any.
what a horrible place to be born into, we are so lucky.
RIP all on the plane.
Reverse cycle a/c supply and install - Ducted and wall splits
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
[what a horrible place to be
[what a horrible place to be born into,]
tot im guessing you have never been there to make such a comment out of ignorance ... Ukraine in summer now is a beautifull place and the people great
rolling hills full of sunflowers and wheat, very much like out mid west actually with canola and wheat
it is not a horrible place at all , nor are the local Ukraine people ,it is different to here yes , but essentially the people are very similar in their values
this link to the bbc is accurate imo
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28384930
what people should understand is these rebels/terrosrist/mass murderers are mostly from Russia and other former soviet states , they are the extreme nationalists who have been fed apropganda diet of mis information and lies and about saving their Russian speaking citizens in these parts of Ukraine , tey have been recruited from within Russia , most are Russian citizens, all the main leaders of these bastards are Russians with a link the Russian special services /kgb or karga bear military intelligence units
they are not in the main Ukrainians
to fire a sophisticated weapon like a buk system at a relatively small target like a boeing 33,000 feet up when its moving at approx. 760 kmh it takes specialist military training ,
do people honestly think the average separatist has that level of skill , even if somehow they could buy that weapon at the corner shop ?? which you cant
this is the work from within the russian special force units ,
Ukraine seems to be doing the best it can with little help militarily from the outside world , even though the big powers promised them help under the Budapest memorandum when they gave up their stockpile of nuclear weapons in the 90s at the west request,
which was the the 3rd largest in the world , Russia would not be doing this shite if ukraine still had nukes
and yes we are lucky to be born here , Australia has never had to experience war to this scale on its own soil , it takes a bit of understanding to get your head around how a powerfull country like Russia can just bully you by driving across your border and invading covertly .this is whats happening here
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
tot
Posts: 1162
Date Joined: 31/01/10
fair call!
I was talking politically not geographically.
it would not be good to have neighbouring countries that give little respect and run rampant at their own will.
im sure it is a beautiful country, sorry if offended.
Reverse cycle a/c supply and install - Ducted and wall splits
Dale
Posts: 7930
Date Joined: 13/09/05
Hey Tot, I saw that on the
Hey Tot, I saw that on the BBC news web site this morning.
"Just because you are a Character, Doesn't mean you have Character."
Mr Wolf
uncle
Posts: 9507
Date Joined: 10/02/07
as terrible as all this is
just remember its media driven, never let the truth get in the way of a good story [not talking about the shooting down of the plane] but anything after that could be emblished
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
chris raff
Posts: 3257
Date Joined: 09/02/10
MH17 Aftermath War sucks
MH17 Aftermath
“Intelligence is like a four-wheel drive. It only allows you to get stuck in more remote places.”