This is how you manage a fishery apparently. Let it get ravaged to crisis point and then choke it off from users. Then win the Premiers award for outstanding service (re: Shark Bay snapper fishery).

Note that the species listed as possibly having cut quotas are not all found in one area - this is widespread, over-exploitation of our fisheries.

I do not support that it will have to happen, but i support it happening if it has to. There will be no other option. This should not be about the loss of our fishing amenity - it is about ensuring fishing amenity for following generations. This is our moral obligation to fellow future humans and the environment in which we survive.

Sort-of disappointed again with the reaction of RecFishWest in the paper though it was pretty much sitting on the fence which is good as it is early days - Frank Prokop saying that he doesnt see evidence that the fishery is under stress - does anyone out there agree with this assessment? I understand that it may not be a policy or whatever and is just a comment in the media, and no doubt it was a just a reaction and there is more work to be done etc etc - but... no evidence? To his credit he did say that if there was evidence that it was necessary then RFW would support it which is a fair call, RFW are looking out for us... it is very hard to prove such things in the marine environment - very difficult to get the scientific information at that base level. I hope that when the info comes out, whatever action to protect fish stocks is taken - without regard for commercial or recfisher angst. Without the fish both user groups wouldnt even exist, and we have had our way with the fish off this coast until only recently.

We should not push for less restrictions - we should push for better management - e.g. perhaps if the bag limits were reduced to 2 per person (and respective reduction in pro quotas too) 10 years ago, we would have a sustainable fishery now (of course this would have been vehemently opposed by rec and comm fishing groups). It is good that some action is happening now - i want sustained, adequate, ongoing research to continue to monitor and support it in the future, otherwise we might not be allowed to catch them at all if it crashes. And what about other fisheries, not just primo species? Herring anyone?

Maybe we wont have the concrete stats and science, but anecdotally - someone tell me where you can *regularly* catch WA Dhufish within - let throw it out there...5 or 10 nautical miles from Perth. or Blue Groper. or snapper out of spawning season. You may prove me wrong on the specifics above, but in general i am sure you agree with my point. Of course you can still catch them - but in fractional numbers compared to only 10 or 20 years ago. no evidence?

Anyone who has fished this coast for say 10 years will have seen the evidence. Serial depletion was the term given to me once before by Andy Mac i think. Serial depletion seems to be OK with some sectors of the rec fishing community. Its not their fault, poor dears - the way we have traditionally been brought up to regard the environment (Apparently God gave the Earth to Man...) makes it so - but these are the times when we have to recognise that we dont have exclusive rights over everything.

The sequential reduction in bag limits in recent years is both an indication that we are guessing at what needs to be done, as well as a recognition that the various fisheries are under too much stress as it is these bag limit reductions are reactionary - imagine how it will be in another 10 years when the resource boom leaves a legacy of alot of people with alot of money spending it on bigger boats and better technology. As it is regional centres have enormous increases in boat registrations and they are not 12 ft tinnies laden with handlines, a compass and a leadline...

I hope this is not yet another case when people try to use a lack of knowledge to obstruct a precautionary action - the consequences are too great. Oh yeah thats right apparently there is also no evidence that suggest no-take-areas have any influence on fish size and abundance. Oh except for all those scientific research reports...but what would they know? They werent even done in Australia right? Oh, except the ones that were...oh yeah...probably had faulty methods or something...(sarcasm)

I was very amused but almost cried when i read the comments by a recfisher in the paper this morning. He was apparently angry ('livid' - but thats the West for you). Poor guy has had to go further and further out to sea to catch his fish! Imagine that!! Unheard of!! I wonder why? and now it wont be worth going that far for just one dhuie! So - I am inferring that he might think it is better to get bigger and bigger and bigger boats and keep going further and further out to maintain his catch? And what about the other observation from a fellow who has been fishing for 53 years that he now needs to go up north to catch his fish. Here is the evidence. Plain, simple, very very easy to see - it just takes open eyes. You dont need scientifically, statistically robust data when you have 53 years worth of experience. What happens when everyone has to go up north to catch their fish? They catch 20-odd tonnes in two weeks, thats what (from Adams indicative 11 tonnes of carcasses...). Yes professional fishers catch probably the most, but we are also in on it in a big and ever-growing way. It may be a big ocean, but there are only so many lumps and bumps out there with fish on them, and i would not be surprised if everyone in Perth put their GPS spots together we would find that we know where every one of them was within 20NM.

I HATE that this may have to happen. I HATE when people dont see the forest for the trees. I HATE when i cant catch the fish cos...they arent there anymore. I HATE that I cant afford a boat big enough to let me go dhuie fishing. I HATE that people still resist things like no-takes or limit reductions etc - do you think that Dept of Fisheries are doing it 'just cos'? surely the political ramifications would be too great to do it 'just cos'? Think about what you can and cant do on land, where you can and cant go etc, and compare that to the ocean - it is still relatively open-slather out there.

I hope when it comes time to comment, people think not of themselves but of the fish, and of history.

thats it! no more from me!

Ewan

yeah no worries Terry - i hoped as much - you always have to take what that paper says with a grain of salt...i know that RFW is very proactive on these issues...re: crabs, snapper etc in the past, etc. But it has also disappointed me greatly on other issues, I hope not this one. RFW have done a great job in this issue and i trust they will continue, in the coming debate. As long as the enhancement of fish stocks is the priority, not the reduction of a percieved loss of fishing amenity.

i hope that everyone keeps the big picture in mind - we are lucky to be able to catch even just one of any of these fish, especially compared with fisheries in the rest of the world. i believe that mentalities are changing rapidly and that people would accept changes that are needed. Yet there will be many many people with reactions like those described in the paper today, and this is what i write about. Perhaps only being allowed to catch one would heighten the appreciation for them, people will eat every skerrick of them and value the prize even more. on the other hand some may keep every fish and just take home the biggest. and yet others would chance the risk of being caught. I would hope that with (if necessary and i believe it is) tightened restrictions would come greater enforcement but we will see...

the greatest pleasure i get out of going fishing is being there - catching the fish just makes me remember what made me get out there in the first place! Catching one instead of two, or two instead of four wouldnt change a thing for me. People who say it wont be 'worth it' anymore are in it for the wrong reasons in my opinion. The majority of the world doesnt have the opportunities we have to enjoy such a beautiful place in safety and freedom, and to boot we have big, delicious fish to catch! one of which is enough to fill many bellies.

Ewan

We have the opportunity right now to keep it all forever, through Marine Conservation Reserves, reducing pro fishing quotas, reducing rec fishing quotas, and promoting the values of sustainability and appreciation of the environment for its whole, not just for its meat. We are on the edge, at the crux and all that, right now. this is the time for progressive thinking and attitude changes cos - if we deny what needs to be done now it will be another couple of governments before it comes up again...when it may be too late. It is now, in this generation, that it has to happen.
Ewan

Put this back into perspective a bit.

here we have the minister of the day reducing the commercial catch by 40%. then 2 weeks later he has announced that the rec sector is going to be hit with 50%, this may not sound fair but i will get to that later

so what the minister is saying, he is going to halve the total catch by near on 50% from both sectors.. which in my opinion is needed, sadly we are lumped with slow growing under performing fish and we have to live with it and manage it accordingly after 40 years of miss management

Think about this, what papers has the minister got on his desk to suggest that the fishery is in trouble, I dare say it, but some of us were right, this is what we have been trying to say for many of years across a few websites, in some ways, yeah i could of overstepped the mark and again i will apologize but i didn't need a paper to say that this is what we needed.

OK the wetline review has taken 10 years to come to fruition but its a hot potato, Honestly think of the ramifications that this will cause, You are coming up against a industry with huuuuuge amounts of money and votes, No other minister has touched this with a ten foot pole even thou one started it, but this one has, and i urge everyone to send a email of thanks, He has got balls to fix the fishery and the decision made in the next months are crucial, if anyone thinks this is finished you wait to the specifics come out.

Here is my prediction and back to the unfairness

no commercial fishing for demersals between Lancelin and Port bouvard which is a big one . Don't get excited because this is where it goes bang. you will have a no take zones, closed areas to help the demersal species spawn on their terms with no interference

you will have a reductions as stated, with boat limits chucked in to boot

You may even have a tag system with log books, even a lotto where Adam sits at home and Andy mac goes fishn

Hell you may even have a salt licence to pay for the whole shootn match

I don't care either way, I am glad this minister has the balls to ensure that the fishery is there for our kids, and gets my vote hands down.

And these are my thoughts and others but you wait and see, these decisions are needed and cant be compromised

Wally

no worries Adam I understand about the questions

I found the whole "justification thing" pretty funny on my first trip up north. Each night I heard around the tables after a few beers people doing the cost of fillets vs the cost of the trip thing. Kinda funny if you throw in the interest you would earn on the $80,000 for your boat + the running costs you would save on buying a small 4 cylinder car to drive around in instead of the F250 etc etc. If you ate fish twice a week for a couple the fuel it costs to tow your boat up to Exmouth or onslow would cover a fair bit of your fillet cost for the year so it does not stack up as a real argument, just people justifying the killing of fish. In a weeks fishing we took 10kg of fish between us, and I would happily have taken none, these were just the fish that were hooked deep or would not release, mainly goldspot cod and Chinaman + a mackie that was rooted. We had an absolute blast on Tuna, trevally and queenies and had the best session of my life on poppers one afternoon in a glass off. Had mackies up to 25kg hitting poppers and launching 6 ft in the air each time - awesome to be casting blindly and just getting hit every cast for an hour with three of us in the boat. BUT - the rest of the group were fishing within sight and caught nothing becasue they were bottom bashing and complained all night about how slow it was( not like it used to be).

I tried to have this fish for the future argument but I was shot down pretty quickly and realized that attitudes take a long time to change and that for these guys filling their freezer was the reason they had an 80000 boat, probably in the same way that many of us justify buying a Saltiga or Stella, which always gets you looks and generally a "you spent HOW MUCh on that", my Kmart Beach reel will catch just as many etc etc. They are probably right, but everytime I hooked up to a big Bluefin or Trevor casting a slug on my Stella I get a big smile knowing that I can lay in and it will only be my lack of Patience or a shark that stuffs it up.

I was lucky to be involved in the change of attitude that took place in SE Queensland during the past ten years, and it was really the humble Flathead that had a lot to do with it. Many of you would have read about the Flathead Classic on the Gold Coast each year. Now flathead, even big ones fight like wet bags, but they are damn tasty and you don't need a big boat to target them so they are pretty easy to flog out. If you look at the catch rates for the Competition each year they keep getting better most years, and this is a catch and release only. I think what happened is what started as a "fun" comp with an emphasis on research has led to a whole generation that now see the big breeders as pure gold through education and awareness on TV and fishing media.

One big problem I see in Perth is that most of our big breeders (dhuies) have a tendancy to die when caught in more that 40m. My wife refuses to fish in more than 20m because of this. Her only dhuie went 15kg and was nearly dead when it hit the floor of the boat as it had swallowed the Jig almost to its bumhole. Whilst we were elated at having caught it, not being able to release it was pretty sad and we packed it in the esky and went in for the day, and spent the next month trying to munch through a tonne of Fillets.

I catch plenty of Dhuies but have not taken one for ages because they are generally too much fish for the two of us to eat fresh and I don't think they freeze that well. I don't target them at all but they seem to like my jigs more than the YTK that I am targeting so we always catch a few.

When do Dhuies and Snapper reach a spawning size, are they like Barra and Flathead where your big ones are all breeders and can we introduce slot sizing on Females and make sure that each boat must have a release weight in the same way they must have life jackets etc. I have no idea on this but I have been blessed to have spent a fair bit of time on the water in the territory and SE Queensland and know what the attitude in both places are regarding precious stocks.

WA has without doubt some of the best fishing areas in Australia, I have chosen to make it home for my family and very much look forward to my first northern trip with my son in about 7 years. I also know that now is the time to take action to make sure that there is still something left by then.

Have to agree that the decision to act now without extensive research data is far better than to not act and risk losing the resource for ever. If it was found to be wrong then all the more fish for the future and perhaps (though I seriously doubt it) the restrictions could be eased in 5 years time if the data is supportive.

Good on the minister for having some balls, though the rec v commercial debate will continue to rage for the forseable future.

I watched the report as well and am glad that someone is finally doing something to protect our fish stocks.I continually get shot down by the usual crowd who call me a greenie for careing and doing what I can to protect the fish I catch.Have no dramas keeping a feed but really dislike when people go out continually and "stock" the fridge.If we can, as recreational fishermen, join with the commercial sector and do what we can by adhering to the catch limits that are imposed, we can enjoy this passion of ours not just for now but also for our children and their children.If we continually finger point at each other and blame the other side for lowering fish stocks we will get bloody nowhere!

Great to see a minister who appears to be doing what he is paid for and for having the aggates to stand up and making a stand.

Cheers OX

Fish greenie proud and true.

Just saw the ad for the segment on Today Tonight.
Looks like its going to be beat up into another one of their usual storys rather than worrying about facts.

Rockingham Offshore Fishing Club
www.rockinghamoffshore.com

Maybe there should be cuts to the amount seafood that is caught for export as the biggest percentage of catch is exported .We are taking more cuts for commercial catch that is exported out of our country that doesn’t sit well with me .I understand there needs to be a commercial fishery because not everyone can catch fish the only problem is that the price of our local produce is so high because of the high export prices payed, so the consumer gets panelised there as well. In the scope of things it’s greed for dollars from the commercial fisherman and the government. Amatures go fishing to catch fish for there family pros fish for the highest price they can get for there catch wether it stays in Australia or it’s exported they don’t care. So we pay the price for that . We as amatures are nothing more than a spec of sand on a long beach .

Nothing beats a day on the water catching a fish is just a bonus

For a commercial wet liner catch, its the norm. these guys have got huge restrictions out of the Exy area, they can only fish in certain spots and have certain amount of days they can fish(most probably north of exy they were fishing).  Not taking sides here, the question is is it sustainable?  There is no doubt the commercial sector has had a impact on the fishery, but the last ten or 15 years we are matching them, without doubt, some rec boats have better gear then the commercials, everyone thinks that the cray boys catch what they want, rape and pillage everything in their path, funny that, the talk is that a very small % is actually going to access in the wetline review, the talk is out of 1400 boats who can access, 200 of these have got it including the true wetliners on the west coast, now this is even when the fishery department changed the goal posts and gave them another history year 2001/ 02 instead of the one year 96/97, so go figure, if they were ripping out that much why didn't more boats get access, Oh Ok they didn't declare it, cash sales over the bar, yep it goes on, as in the recs.but you have to ask the question, why haven't they got the 1000kg access right
Gps and Color sounders have had great impact mate,I know guys that don't even use the sounder ( probably because they don't know how as you have stated), they have pinged spots from pots that they caught one decent fish off and go back time after time, ripping everything off that one spot, then they move on to the next.
10% of fisherman catch fish, hogwash, it would be more like 30% now. Websites, fishing reports, word of mouth sounders /gps has changed this, gone are the days when secretes were secretes, you wouldn't tell ya best mate where ya caught fish, this is all ready available on the web, information is given away to quickly, better techniques better fishing gear, braid lines circle hooks, latest gadgets, all makes fishing easier, but not for the fish
This post isn't about the coms/ recs, we are extractors, ask not who is responsible, but is it sustainable, if not, fix the problem so we can all enjoy fishing, even the people that just wish to view. what happens if your kids say, Dad I don't like to kill fish. I want to see a Jewie in its natural habitat, hasn't you child/grandchild got just as much right as me and you.god dam right he has
Wally

Your right about figures, as I said compulsory log books, at least for cat 1, then we should have a better idea, but sometimes you need to have a punt

Think you may get scared if the figures were produced thou.

what was it if anyone that thinks that the recs match the commercials they are Muppet's,Well I say that the recs match the commercials for demersal species on the west coast. north bit different, south a bit different, but here, for sure

I don't know about the black market thing, I thought the wet line review was resource sharing between the commercial sector.

Wally

OK I am a fence sitter and see valid points on both sides, but I would like to do some alternative maths first. Warning, this is a long boring and convoluted post, so read on at your own risk.

How many boat ramps do we have in Perth metro? How many boat bays do they have in their car parks? If we assume that trailer boat anglers are more hard core than 99% of the penned Gin Palace owners then we can look at capacity in a slightly different way.

Lets say at peak times there are:
50 boats at Two Rocks
50 boats at Mindarie
100 boats at Ocean Reef (though I have never seen that apart from a major comp day)
150 boats at Hillaries
100 boats at Woodies
100 boats at Point Peron
200 boats at some other ocean going ramps (though I doubt it)

Thats 750 boats going out to fish on a Saturday and Sunday. Midweek there would be less than 10% of that number on the water. Don't believe me , check out the boat ramps at 10-am when most boats will have already launched and not come back in yet. So that's say 1500 boats on a weekend and 375 on weekdays so 1875 boats per week. Assume 2.25 people per boat, that's 4218 anglers fishing prime weeks (not 10000) Annualising that gets a staggering possible 219336 angler days.

If we say that winter will knock out 25% of that number because it is too cold (would be good to look at Club Marine's stats on how many boats get put on dry dock insurance cover during winter) inclement weather will knock out 50% of the fleet 25% of the time and 100% of the fleet 10% of the time (I reckon its double that, but I will be generous)that's 219336 / 4 (winter is one season)= 54834 x 25% = 13708 days knocked off.

219336 - 13708 = 205628 angler days
205628 x 10% = 20562 lost for weather = 185066
185066 x 25% = 46266 x 50% = 23133 lost days to weather = 161933 days
Now say 20% of the boats are tinnys and small craft that don't get beyond the three mile, they are going to be targetting herring, gardies and whiting. so we now have 129546 angler days chasing dhuies

Now we apply the statistically acceptable 80/20 rule that 20% of anglers catch 80% of the fish, then at 220tonnes 80% would be 176000kgs from 25909 days (20% of 129546) which is 6.79kgs per day for each of those top 20% anglers and 44000kgs (20% of total tonnage)between the other 80% of anglers which gives them 0.43kgs per day. That equates to one per trip on average for the good guys and 1 every sixth or seventh trip for the others. I would think that would be pretty close to the 220tonnes, which makes Wally's numbers look reasonable.

Don't get excited Wal, it doesn't mean I agree totally with the numbers.

What happened to the % of boats that are jet ski's, the % that are cruisers just going to Rotto for the day, the % that are just testing their boats, the % that forgot the bait (hehehe), the sambo jiggers and the list goes on, and the numbers keep reducing.

I would point to the fact that I am nearly always one of the first 5 boats to leave when I launch and one of the last 20 to return. How many of that purported fleet of fish chasers only spend a few hours out there and head home. Too many variables to make any sense out of the maths, so if you have read this far congratulations on sticking it out, but I haven't proven anything I'm afraid. The number crunching will always be contentious and until someone does an extensive survey throughout an entire year no-one will ever know the "facts". I am a supporter of the compulsory log book if it comes out, would be interesting for sure. Personally this past 12 months I would have kept roughly 18 dhuies and my deckies an extra 10 (average size 8kgs) and that would be by fishing between 20 and 30 trips a year. Out of the three boats in the street I would fish twice as often locally as the others if not more and catch 4 times as many dhuies as the others if not more, and they are both very good anglers.

Redo the numbers based on how many boats are in the carpark on this coming Saturday and Sunday or last Saturday and Sunday and see if my maths is near the mark or not. I think you will find there will be a big difference.

My personal gut feel is that the dhufish is in bad need of protection and anything they are contemplating doing to reduce pressure is fine by me. As for the catch rate of recs I think it is somewhere between 60% and 110% of the commercial catch in metro waters. Unfortunately that is such a big variance that it means I have no idea!

Interesting discussion and another reason for us to do the dhuie poll as suggested earlier.

can i get a copy of that when the dvd comes out Andy i will go with your figures there Andy lol CHEERS SHAG

As part of my personal efforts to reduce my own boat's dhuie catch, you will notice I have started taking on deckies that can't even catch a whiting without help. (Hehehe)

Yeah andy started reading your post, but realized how long it is, so if you ever go audio let me know

Im shattered mate boo hoo hoo I suppose i will just have to look whos leading the comp out of us heehee he CHEERS SHAG
p.s i didnt mean it oh great skipper
please dont leave me on shore lol

-Dhuies are in desaparate need of some protection.

-Rec catch could well be up there but too many variables to make it statistically viable to even guess.

- I am a fence sitter re blame, but a definate advocate for taking action on both sides.

- Shag can't catch whiting without help.

No problems Andy I wont get excited. but I was talking the whole west coast not just metro?
As for the figures its any bodies guess really, but as you have shown Andy the numbers can stack up for the recs,
In the creel of 96/97 we nailed 135 tonne and the glorified taxi service nailed 20 odd tonnes. in 2000 ( i think) there was a national phone survey and they put the figure at 250 tonne and 500 tonne of jewies caught from the rec sector on the west coast.  
I believe that we match the commercials on the west coast for demersals.Do I think the demersals on the west coast are in trouble from fishing pressure and 40 years of mismanagement, yes i do. Blaming recs, blaming pro's isn't going to solve the problem. clear enough
Wally

Thanks for simplifying it Andy.

I do agree dhuies need protection and so do the other species mentioned at the top of the page, I wouldn't mine seeing all the baglimits halved again or even more, Something has to be done soon.

As for shag, well we all struggle in life

Great thoughts i know living up in quinns and drinking down mindarie the amount of crayfishermen you talk to that say how many fish there yanking out on the side is frikin alarming and i know im not the only one to have heard or seen this sort of thing CHEERS SHAG
P.s leave me alone about my friken whiting i was saving there numbers lol

The vain attempt to conjour up a number that matches the quoted number of 220 tonnes took a lot of assumptions, heaps of guesswork and a few errors on the calculator, which is no different than the current guestimate for catch from the rec sector. One would expect that given the fact that the commercial catch is regulated and recorded with invoices etc that the catch data there "should" be pretty accurate. We however have no idea how much comes out of the water from rec pressure. It may well surprise us all, which is why I said facetiously 60 - 110%.
We had this discussion before where people see pics posted and think geez this guy catches dhuies every time he goes out or he catches 10 KG's every time he goes out, its a long way from the truth, but that is all they have to go on (anecdotal evidence) unfortunately what do we have to go on with regards to estimating rec catches, wildly inaccurate creel surveys, our own personal catch data and website forum discussions, hardly the basis for a statistically viable assessment. That's why compulsory log books seem to be a good idea, however flawed they may be.
I think wally's point is that it isn't as important to argue Comm versus Rec, rather it is more important to recognise the overall damage to the stocks and the need for action across the board. I think he is tryng to voice a wake-up call to rec fishermen that think we are not part of the problem, when clearly we are. Its just the percentages that are questionable.
Don't get me wrong I think there should have been more cuts on the commercial side, but am I happy that we are to have cat 1 bag limits cut?
Answer: catagorically YES!
Because even if I bag out 10 times more often than I ever did before it would still be a great day on the water, no matter what I brought home for the table. Remember that in my lifetime I think I have only ever bagged out on Dhuies three times. Once with Ox & Shamu, once last year with my Dad when we got two each, and once the year before. Never on Pinkies and never on any other Category 1 fish.

Too long winded a post and everyone gets in and beats me to the punch while I am typing.

(Hehehe)

Go prawning instead guys its less political and we need to give it a go before they close that too!
How do you expect to get great research data when you pay people with Phd,s peanuts and cut their budgets! think about where the info comes from have a talk to the researchers they will tell ya how hard up for dollars they are!

Thanks Andy I think you summed it up. no doubt the commercials have had a great impact especially in yester years, but the last 10 or 15 we are just getting what they left behind. Sadly we are dealing with slow growing fish. we haven't had a good recruitment of Jewies for 10 years on the west coast and the ones we are pulling out now are the prime breeders.
How do we fix it, honestly I don't know, lots of ideas, some have merit, some don't,some will upset or rock the boat.I would hate to be a fisheries manager, thats for sure.
One thing I would like to see, is no commercial fishing for demersals in the metro waters, this makes it a rec zone only. then we can manage whats left. they could even have commercial zones only outside the metro.
All very interesting, and its good too get a discussion going,Its a must we all carry a release weight, these little Jewies we get back are like gold and should be treated as such.
Wally

My point is that they are done on "one day" of the year at "some" boat ramps here in Perth metro. I think I have had it done to me once since I have been fishing from a boat. Gathering data one day a year will have absolutely no statistical value when there are so many variables as I mentioned before. That's excluding the fact that fish don't bite every day either (the almanac will tell you that).
Thats why I prefer the log book idea as it accounts for every days fishing, good and bad.

I have to agree with him on this one, including the Passion.

Gave up any respect for the commercials after seeing a boat netting just off the Marmion Angling club inside the reef earlier this year at dusk. What for??? Could've been a research vessel, but didn't look like it. Log books also good, the comms definately should be filling them out!!!

The lack of accurate data available is of concern, and if we all need to back off until that is provided, so be it.

What about the other states. We can not possibly be the only ones with this problem.

Got checked once in 96/97 and once in the last one 05/06. I remember when we got called into Peter Rogers office over the zone 5 thing, He said to us that a Jewie, yes one Jewie, had been logged a day for the past 2 months , so 60 jewies were logged by the creel boys in 2 months, We said to peter ya may wish to get the boys to look at the websites because I reckon you could count more jewies on the forums then at the ramps.lol Creels may have a purpose when you haven't got 1000's of fisherman or heaps of ramps, but metro, unless there is a guy manning each ramp every day for year, its guess work and they don't do this Jody commercials do log each fish or are suppose too, just like the charter fleet, only makes sense we do it as well, at least we would have some firm figures for the researches to work off Wally

Well if the pro got 23 Dhuies and only 15 Snapper then it looks like the humble Snapper is in more trouble ?????

"He said to us that a Jewie, yes one Jewie, had been logged a day for the past 2 months , so 60 jewies were logged by the creel boys in 2 months,"

That's an interesting figure

at least 10 of those would have been from my boat alone if it was done over a two month period in January/Feb.

Shows how inaccurate they are.JMHO

Andy it was in the first months they started, aug/ sep, crappy weather i know but both me and Garry said thats not right, there was definitely more posted up on websites.

I think mav is right.The beauty of pinks they can bounce back with the right management plans in place.In saying that thou, they don't spawn until they reach 540mm, yep thats right 540mm, isn't the legal size 410mm. look for this one in management changes ( wink)This is quite odd because the ones in Shark Bay are a lot less, in actual fact one was 180mm and she had eggs inside her

did you know the pinkies in the sound, they still haven't got a clear picture of where they go when they leave the sound after spawning, There has been a extensive tagging program in the sound and very little recaptures, compared to the Jewies and little pinks outside the sound. in actual fact the Jewie recapture rate is one of the highest going around,

Wally

I personally beleve that 4 catagory 1 fish is not a bad limit and is one that would fill most families with ease and for the people like myself i only bring 1 mybe 2 good fish home and release the rest because i know its only a matter of a few days before i head out again. I say drop the limits but to do this you need to police the waters more for a start as i cant say i have once seen a fisheries officer at the ramp or out and about. Like Andy mac said after these comments im still sitting on the fence sum what but i do beleive the humble dhues, pinks, and the like need some protection.

Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!

Was only talking to a well nowen guy that does a bit of long lining at kalbarri and further north who said they are getting 400KG OF PINKIES A NIGHT! WHATS THAT GONNA DO!

Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!

you got proof they are stuffed, because I got proof if you use a release weight to shoot that theory down and thats not the only species from depth. try a blackass recaptured twice out of 100m and this fish was lifeless. i am not saying all survive but its a lot better then the birds picking out their eyes on the surface.We have to give them the best chance and thats the release weight.
wally

what i think is being said is that if there stuffed there stuffed and theres not much anyone can do about it! Release wieght or not anyone can clearly see if the fish is not going back to live!
Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!

"I'm going to throw a line in. For proof of this figure we could probably go back through the brag board and count them, discounting old photos."

I'd be keen on seeing that too. See what has been posted over the last 2 years from all local websites.

C'mon Wal, you must have counted em if you ran it past Peter?

Nah scaly didn't count them, it was more of a hunch, which two guys had. go do the searching, see what ya come up with?
Adam I hear what ya saying about creels. but I reckon in high population places like the metro they don't work. they don't give a accurate figure of what is getting extracted because they don't count enough people, I think it was the last creel, they didn't check at night, how many guys go out on a summers night chasing Jewies, 
Check these links out, look at the pics and the baratrauma symptoms and there is a bit of info as well for you, I sent Adam a pic of a tagged Black ass, classic eye bulging i hope he can put it up, this fish was recaptured.
I will dig up some more for you, seriously just because they don't look healthy doesn't mean they will die,the tagging studies have proven this.
http://www.recfishwest.org.au/TaggingProgram.htm#PreliminaryResults
http://www.recfishwest.org.au/ReleaseWeight.htm
Wally