How can fish shops sell undersize fish? (imported??)
Submitted by pelagicyachts on Thu, 2012-05-24 13:51
Dont want to start a thread bagging fish shops, i just wanted to understand how they can sell under-size fish -i am assuming imported fish ?
Was just in a fish shop that had quite a few species that were well under "WA" size limits, red-emperor (whole) some would have been 20cm long -i just had to walk out
Browndog
Posts: 595
Date Joined: 10/04/12
I have often wondered the
I have often wondered the same? Would be interested to hear any response on this.
Deckie
Posts: 1296
Date Joined: 03/04/09
Farmed
Not sure if it's true, but i was told once, after i asked the question, the fish they sell are "farmed" & dont come under the size restrictions laid down for most of us.
Please correct me if that is wrong.....
cheers & be safe
Rob
Cheers & Stay safe
Bakerc
Posts: 61
Date Joined: 07/04/10
Dont know for sure but I was
Dont know for sure but I was told it was because of the way they net them they die in the nets so theres no point throwing them back. So therefore they might as well be allowed to sell them. Makes me sick seeing it on the rare occasions I venture into the shops.
carnarvonite
Posts: 8686
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Undersize
If a fish is undersize, live or dead when its caught in a pros net it has to go back, never used to like doing it because of the waste but rules are rules with big penalties to go with them.
dkonig82
Posts: 2091
Date Joined: 06/07/10
I cant imagine they are
I cant imagine they are farming red emps...?
When asked by a non-fisherman 'how many fishing rods do you really need?' the correct answer is either:
n+1 (where n is the number of fishing rods you currently own); or
n-1 (where n is the number of fishing rods which would cause your significant other to dump you.
ricey
Posts: 736
Date Joined: 24/12/09
no way they are farmed
they are just by catch and dead - so sold that way- long lines or nets.
Unlikely imported (would legally be required to state if they were).
At times fish could be from over east with smaller size limits.
Wise man says - first take the plank out of your own eye before trying to take the speck out of somebody else's.
UncutTriggerInWA
Posts: 2692
Date Joined: 05/09/08
Maybe size limits don't apply to commercial fishermen
?????. They have tonnage quotas so mix the big with the little. Who knows?
Vince.
Work smart and fish often.
Member and die-hard supporter of the mighty West Coast Eagles.
bloodysmythe
Posts: 80
Date Joined: 26/12/11
that is the dumbest thing i
that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard!!!
drinkin TNT n' smokin dynamite
EL SYD
Posts: 599
Date Joined: 16/08/10
ive been on my local wharfe
ive been on my local wharfe when the trawlers unload and they count out the weights of the fish and type and with the barra its a ton limit quota as well as the mackies and prawns
pelagicyachts
Posts: 1329
Date Joined: 23/02/11
i went there to buy salmon -
i went there to buy salmon - but must say left without purchase and a little saddened.....
On a positive note i can say hand on heart i have not contributed to any fish deaths for at least 6 months haha ......
hlokk
Posts: 4293
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Two points that may explain some of it
Two points:
1. A lot of people have said there are undersize pinkies, but they may actually be pan snapper (which legal size is a fair bit smaller than pinkies), so important to get the exact species right.
2. The fish size/bag limits will be specific to the areas they come from. NZ pinkies spawn earlier, and have obviously been determined by their government to have different applicable size limits (rightly or wrongly). So fish sizes will be based on where they came from not our local ecosystem. As long as its properly managed from where they came from, it doesnt really matter if they fit to our laws or not (which are for local caught fish).
terboz123
Posts: 1358
Date Joined: 13/04/11
hes not talking about
hes not talking about snapper....red emperor buddy. most people know other countries snapper sizes are much much smaller
a hard days fishing still beats work
PGFC member
GCGFC memberhlokk
Posts: 4293
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Sorry, I was pretty unclear
Sorry, I was pretty unclear in my post, but I merely meant it as an example of how fish ID's can get confused (using an example on this site once) . Not everyone might be aware of all the different kinds of non-local fish that may look similar (whatever the fish in question is).
As for the last bit: Even red emperor in our country have rather different size limits. Its 55cm in QLD, only 41cm here, and in the NT there are no size limits at all.
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
to stop all the speculation
to stop all the speculation about where they come from and sizes etc why not just front the counter and ask the head of that section of the shop where the fish come from.I can't see the person giving you a load of lies he knows what the species and size limits are in this state and i have no doubt that he is selling fish that fill the legal requirements,what about a quick call to fisheries they don't have a vested interest like dollars in the till.
just a thought
Wes F
Posts: 1069
Date Joined: 07/01/12
Find out the facts
If a shop is possibilly selling undersize fish, The Id of said fish must first be established. Then where the fish were caught. these two vital facts will determine wether a illegal trade is being carried out.
If you are not sure how to approach getting this info, record all details you can and forward them onto to Fisheries WA they should invesitgate.
Fish shop must keep records of all purchases. They may not under any circumstance stock or sell fish purchased from the "public" or source other then from a registered fish trader.
I'm not 100% sure on the details but recently a shop owner (in WA) was found guilty of a similar crime.
Old fishermen never die they just smell that way.
pelagicyachts
Posts: 1329
Date Joined: 23/02/11
yeah i thought that and
yeah i thought that
and without this coming across the wrong way (as it is not intended too) -i think the language barrier would prevent the question being answered...
Daniel Y
Posts: 423
Date Joined: 30/09/05
The size and bag limits that
The size and bag limits that us recreational fishers must adhere to (and I assume the ones that you are refering to), are different to the rules and regulations for pros. Not to mention many are imported from other regions as hlokk said. Many species are aslo farmed - trouts, barramundi, silver perch, snapper, tuna etc.
carnarvonite
Posts: 8686
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Wild caught fish
The pros have the same size limits as rec fishers for wild caught fish its only the farmed fish that the size will vary.
Daniel Y
Posts: 423
Date Joined: 30/09/05
in all states?
in all states?
carnarvonite
Posts: 8686
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Say
Cannot say, havent fished professionally out of WA
roberta
Posts: 2773
Date Joined: 08/07/08
Apart from what you
have seen. In our local Progressive IGA they have so called NW duiefish for sale, we all know its pearl perch. Old fart told the girl behind the counter that it was illegal to sell fish that isn't what it is, she looked & looked at him as if he had warts on his nose. Was in there today, still got the sign up NW Dhuefish.
Ginger Tablets Rock
schecky
Posts: 1645
Date Joined: 25/08/08
Not technically incorrect,
Not technically incorrect, like calling a mulloway a jewie. However, if they had stated an incorrect scientific name it would be a different story
Daniel Y
Posts: 423
Date Joined: 30/09/05
p> schecky is correct.
schecky is correct. common names really mean nothing. for example theres probably a hundred differnt species of fish in australia alone that are commonly called 'snapper', but many people think because it says snapper it must be good eating like Pagrus auratus. </p><p>also if you really had an issue with what they were selling, why would you tell the girl behind the counter? most likley a 16yr old girl has no clue and would not give two shits about what you were saying. if you were really concerned you should have spoken to the store manager, who (if they were actually doing something wrong) would have the ability to make changes
Glenn Moore
Posts: 228
Date Joined: 13/02/12
it is tighter than that
I recently blogged about common names (see link in my signature). But specifically for the retail industry - The following extract from section 4 of the Australian Fish Names Standard sets out the requirements for using Standard Fish Names in Australia (which are based on the CAAB codes that I link to in my blog.)
4. Requirements for using standard fish names4.1 Use of Standard Fish Names
4.1.1 When fish are sold or traded to consumers
Fish sold to consumers (e.g., retail sales and restaurants) shall be identified at the point of sale by the Standard Fish Name (SFN) specified for that species in the Australian Standard Fish Names List (ASFNL), and may also be identified by its scientific name.
4.1.2 When fish are sold or traded other than directly to consumers
Fish sold other than directly to consumers (eg, wholesale, export, import) shall be identified by either the SFN or scientific name for that species.
4.1.3 Standard Fish Names - Scope and Priority
A Standard Fish Name (SFN) may cover a single species, or all species in a particular scientific family or group of fish.
Fish should be identified by the SFN which covers that species only. However, a SFN which the scientific group or family to which a fish belongs may be used if:
4.2 Use of other fish names
4.2.1 When other fish names may be used
When a SFN is required to be used under this Standard, species of fish that do not have a SFN specified in the ASFNL may, subject to 4.2.2, be identified by a name that is commonly used for that species in Australia or overseas.
4.2.2 Notification of use of other fish names
A person or business using another fish name (as per 4.2.1) shall notify SSA of that use within 30 days. SSA will include all such notifications received in accordance with this subsection on the agenda of the next FNC meeting. The FNC may:
(a) initiate a proposal for a SFN to be assigned for that species, or
(b) require the person or business using the other name to submit an application for a SFN to be assigned for that species of fish
* For example, a batch fish that consists of dusky flathead and tiger flathead may be identified as flathead which is the SFN covering species in the flathead family.
** You can report suspected breaches here: http://www.seafood.net.au/page/?pid=987
Glenn Moore
Curator of Fishes
Western Australian Museum
twitter @WestOzFish
Jody
Posts: 1578
Date Joined: 19/04/07
soooo....
does that mean this is incorrect Glenn???
I asked the manager for this store in Innaloo and he told me it was all good. Still suss to me
http://fishwrecked.com/image/id-please-0
TWiZTED
Glenn Moore
Posts: 228
Date Joined: 13/02/12
I think it is incorrect
According to CAAB, the name is not standard. I have no idea what they are referring to - my guess would be Pearl Perch. I think (stress, think) that it is incorrect to use it, but I am rapidly getting beyond my knowledge of the legalities of retail trade..... If you are worried, report it via the link above.
You can search the CAAB database yourself anytime http://www.marine.csiro.au/caab/caabsearch-frames.htm
Glenn Moore
Curator of Fishes
Western Australian Museum
twitter @WestOzFish
Jody
Posts: 1578
Date Joined: 19/04/07
Same Glenn
I reckon they are in the wrong as well.
Maybe a play on words and was Black Jewfish -Protonibea diacanthus
Thanks for the link
TWiZTED