From my experience Australians leave a lot to be desired RE appreciation of Australia.
Make informed decisions and provide legible and articulated discussion based on fact and experience, not heresay or histerics.
Locking land away? Consult a map of Australia and you will see a vast majority of UCL land. One can visit UCL land. You can pretty much access ALL land if you approach it the correct way. It's got VERY little to do with greenies. Likewise consult a map and show me the percentage of sea locked up as opposed to open.
If you have the right key the lock will open.
Have you heard that Aboriginals are now negoiating rights to the ocean under Native Title? They dont intend to lock it up.
Do you know that if resources are located >1m under your house you dont own it?
It's the Gov you elected that determine laws and given WA is known as pro resources, locking land up aint in the portfolio! I know as I work with this everyday.
FYI
Policy comes from the (very) top, not the bottom up. Again you voted for them!
Kind of like responsibility goes UP the ladder not down.
Dont need two degrees to know that.
And Dizzy now knows I work for DEC and regulate law (as you all do).
I regularly engage in constructive discussions with greenies and you know what, I win far more than I lose and because why, because I've worked both sides of the fence. That's what one does to inform themselves of the real issue, they get in and experince the reality of the situation and learn from both sides of the fence and then based on this experience, formualte a constructive understanding and thus decision. If I dont know something I dont spruke any ideas.
I've worked on cray boats, not here in Australia but in Canada. I've seen the poverty and hardship suffered by the cray fisherman but if you wish to continue this genarational job through your kids and grandkids then you have to preserve cray stock today.
I didn't elect anyone.
I'd be embarrassed to say I voted for any of the current clowns in politics.
And due to the endless supply of antics from the political circus we're all forced to endure, I loathe every time I have to vote, because I really don't believe (or have faith) in ANY of them.
to put it bluntly. if you dont like the way its going , sell your boat if your only in it for a big feed. there is more to fishing than just bringing home the most fish. go out and enjoy the day on the water and when you do come home with a nice feed it is a bonus, not a right.
as long as you do it land based, you bludgeon it to death in view of small children and thier parents followed by tossing it back in sight of passers by then you'll be fine mate.
Im all for the limits, im sick of FIFO and people down south coming up here and raping and pilaging... Fishing is a sport with the benefits of eating some of your catch...
I think if you dont pay rates in the area you cant take fish..
I am not a freezer filler. Only have Prawns and (yum- bought lately) Scampi in there.
As for fish I do go out and catch 1 feed worth off fresh unfrozen fillets so this would not impact on my hobbie at all.
But we are spoiled here Brucesta with the backyard the Ocean, and we do have the ability for little effort to jump in the tub and mostly get a feed. Not so easy in some places and I wonder whether we would be as chilled about the rules if we were down south and had to face that.
I dont like frozen fish at all, often have sashimi and would never be an Exxy esky filler. Not my style but wont get angry at others that do that within the limits. From that point off view I am concerned that we are just going to watch as the tide ride in for fishing as a community, not as individuals.
Instead of bickering with each other we as a fishing community need to stand together not devided on issues that may impact on our friends, if not us. One voice, not I believe this, I believe that.
Commercial fishing surely plays large part in the decline of fish stocks, placing blame on the shoulder of the rec-fishers is not going to get anyone united.
I agree with you in the sense that the freezer filling mentality of some has to end for good stocks to exist into the future, but opinions are changing slowly as time goes by.
if my total catch was ever put on a table for the last eight years I have been fishing here, It would not even equal three hours of a pro-fishermans harvest when they go out!
it becomes a bitter pill to swallow when you being limited to two fish per day and 10kg in your freezer when you see Pro-boys bring in tons and tons of dhuies, snapper, bladies, reds, spangles etc....
kepping a good feed of fish is not a bad thing, as long as what you catch you eat. I have no problem with some one takig once or twice a year 35kg of filltets for there yearly fishing trip.
compare that to the guys I see every morning and afternoon hitting the Swan river crabs under the Narrows bridge, same guys every day after day!!!! and same goes for the guys in their small allie boats heading out from Mindarie or Hillaries etc three or four times a week and bagging out every time. These guys that hit the water at 5am and out by 8-30am to go off ot their work, then back in by 4~5pm and head in around 8-pm. go sit around the ramps for a few morning and evenings and see who is killing the golden goose!
It's not the average Joe fisherman or the weekend warriors, !!!
Applies to everything in life as most blame someone else for their own mistakes.
I'm not blaming anyone specifically, nor should the pros get all the blame, who buys the pro's fish and how many members here have stated they give fillets away to family and friends.
Unfortunately you are competing with unique biology and envionments here and it's simple mathmatics, chemistry and physics........overpressure = reduction
I doubt very much of the Dhuies and Red Emp you mention gets exported.
Hell they dont even know what a dhuie is in Sydney let alone Guangdong so why would they pay megabucks for it?
And what if they do anyway? A fisherman with a permit to operate that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars, then being told he has to sell it on the cheap to locals ONLY?
Thats not how our system works here in Aus.
Dont get me wrong, I detest Basa and its other equivalents being sold here.
But show me a proffessional fisherman still in the game and I'll show you a bloke who cops it from 4 sides.
Processor/middlemen, Banks, Greeny/Rec lobbying and good old Mother Nature. Its not an easy life and these guys are not the enemy.
All fisherman need to band together as-divided we fall....
i remember someone on here telling me one day "Its not the destination , its the journey getting there". my taking on this . enjoy what you do and dont be too concerned about the end result. in other words enjoy the fishing even if at the end of the day you dont have a lot to show but memories
So now our yearly trip to north. we can only bring back 10kg of bottom fish.. but have to make up the rest in tuna and mackeral..
They really don't think this thru.. It nearly makes the whole trip pointless cost wise. Purely at costs if and you don't always bring back your 20kg you would have spent the same if not a little more than buying it at the shop..
Bang that back by 1/2 especialy if the maks and tuna ain't biting then the trip is not economicly worth it. May as well buy crap fish from the market..
But in My case the 20 kg of fish only lasts about 4months anyway..
If cost is such a concern it might be cheaper buying fish at the fish markets rather then investing in ongoing costs of boat, tackle, travel etc etc to catch said fish. Your still better off at the markets even before the proposed changes are implemented.
"Other proposed changes include changes to bag and size limits for vulnerable demersal species such as dhufish and pink snapper, and adopting state-wide fishing zones based on distance from shore, as opposed to the complex bioregions currently in place."
Does this mean the demersal ban will cover the entire WA coast?
But in this circumstance where we have a "integrated Fisheries Management Plan", if recreational fishers are to take a further 50% haircut on their possesion limit in addition to the attempt to reduce fishing pressure in the Western Bioregion by 50% by introducing a closure season, then simply the commercial boys must have their share of the total catch pruned substantially also.
Lets face it, whether you aprove of boys going north and catching their legal 20kg of fillets or not, the fish they catch is generally not wasted. it is consumed by their familys and friends.
I take offence to fisheries representantive sprouting on tv and radio that it is not socially acceptable to catch 20kg of fish fillets. If i choose to do so, i am simply taking my lawful share. It shits me that he should paint responsible rec fishers as social pariahs for providing a healthy protein source for their family.
Get off your ass people and make a submission. Tell your local member if you are not happy. Continuing apathy will result in this just being the thin edge of the wedge and we'll all very quickly find that our much loved hobby and passtime is so bound up in green agendas, we will all wonder what happened to enjoying going fishing.
ahhhh.... my rant is over. I feel much better now!
F##k bottom bouncin is boring, even if u bring home a feed, Id rather come home with photos of caught and released than fillets. Fish stocks are not the only thing on the downhill slide in society, we're at the peak of human civilisation! Its all down hill from here.........
I Am a metro landbased fisherman and to be honest I find the thought of taking home this much fish crazy and a bit over the top.
For me the talk of 'selling up' my fishing gear and never walking into a tackle store again is ridiculous , the main reason to fish is the actual art and challenge involved I'n fooling a fish to take you bait / lures and hear the scream of the reel and the adrenalin I'n your bones.
I will continue to go to exmouth as I have done twice this year (without a freezer) to fish In one of Australia's greatest world heritage sites because of the scenery and all the other things involved I'n a great trip up north.
The question I pose now is :
If you had a vote on no fish zones v's tougher bag limits I'n WA which one would you choose??
For me it's a no Brainer.
Last thing, just because as a fisherman your pro catch and release and open to a change I'n bag limits doesn't make you a bloody greenie, now i have been a member hear for over a year and i really dont post a lot however recently the anti greenie theme is getting out of hand.
I've mentioned this elsewhere today on the site - but briefly again now - if the possession amount has been reduced (halved) if you are in an area where pelagics are an occasional capture for example - South of Bunbury to 10 kilo for Demersal fish is it not possible to trade off the 2 month closed season ( which in our part of the world is usually the best fishing time Oct/ Nov with lighter offshore winds) for the 10 kilo limit.
Surely if this is the limit of fish we are allowed to have in the freezer per person then by following the law we will be demonstrating effective stewardship of the resource and thereby doing no damage to the fish stocks of the Vulnerable 5 (if we would have, or be close to that limit), thereby taking away the reason not to fish as we will self manage the practice anyway. With this concept in play the Fisheries Dept could re-open the closed season, not keep it closed as it has now enacted an additional strategy to reduce the limits of fish you may keep.
Glastronomic mentioned a lobby group, well the good ol USA has the NRA to protect their rights.
What is needed is to either join or form a lobby group, pay a membership and employ people to continually lobby Politicians or get a political party to support our interests.... Oh look that's exactly what the Greens have done and now hold the balance of power in this country with the Federal Government. (under a Labor Government there will never be a Carbon tax in this country)
Like him or not but I believe that Bob Katto has had discussions regarding a similar party setup in Australia, until there is a National Body "Shooter fishers Hunter party"; they will continue with the scaremongering and the errosion of our rights of access - Tracks, trails, beaches, "National Parks", Dams, etc for sporting pursuits.
The Professional Fishermen have a governing body and a lobby group to hold Politicians accountable; WE DON'T, and that is why they can FILL THEIR FREEZERS WITH VERY EXPENSIVE FISH and sell them to us at inflated prices.
Andy Mac mentioned 10kg being ok. Mate if I can catch 20 kg of Mackeral fillets they wind up feeding us for the remainder of the year, trouble is I usually only get ONE chance to fish for Mackies per year, and yes once I think we have enough for a family of four; I no longer target that species.
Andy Mac, ref your comment about fisheries knocking on the door.....
Reminds me of a Police Minister who stated and was reported on film as saying words to the effect of,
"although we have had the law and penalty changed for people exceeding the speed limit buy less than 10kph, I cannot see that any Police Officer would be issuing an infringement notice unless the person was behaving in a manner likely to draw attention to themselves." And we all know that worked..............
I hear you Shammy re the speeding fine system, but I seriously think there is a chasm of difference in the resources of fisheries policing versus general policing, so its a long bow to draw that analogy in my opinion.
If anyone thinks that our limited number of fisheries officers would be best put to use by doing random door knocking and freezer inspections across the claimed 600,000 rec fisho's out there, then I would be very surprised by such logic.
The door knock (if it ever occurs) will be selective and targetted at those people that they have serious suspicion of rorting the system not the average Joe Blow.
There is a big resouce commitment difference between passively monitoring a road with millions of cars driving past versus physically commiting human resources to firstly (I presume) getting a search warrant then getting in a van with multiple officers and raiding your back shed feezer, going through all the paperwork involved in counting and weighing, assessing number of people in residence etc etc.
With the Mackie fillets don't forget you can bring back whole fish, so you will still be able to bring back the equivalent of 20kgs maybe more and if you get stopped on the road by a fisheries officer you are within the law as long as they are whole fish.
The only thing I think you may be eluding to is that after they stop you with 2 x 20kg mackies in the eskie (bloody big esky), that they will follow you home and put your house under surveillance until you fillet them and then jump out of the bushes to nab you for being in excess of 10kgs of fillets. Whilst I think it is unlikely to occur it is definitely the area where the law needs to be articulated better to stop it being legal in one sense (whole fish) and then illegal as soon as it is filleted (its the same fish and the same resource value). That's where the law needs to be changed or at the very least articulated better to clear it up one way or the other.
They claim that this change in the laws is designed to make it easier to understand but like the old issue regarding deepwater fish slot limits where a 30kg barotrauma suffering cod was illegal to land yet destined to be shark fodder, this issue of whole fish versus filleted is confusing and illogical and needs to be changed. The voice of local anglers got the slot limit issue resolved so I don;t see why we can't get this whole versus fillet possession limit issue cleared up.
I'll say it again. I believe a 10kg travelling limit and a 20kg at permanent place of residence limit (per person residing there) would be far better. That way the once a year guys aren't impacted too heavily but it makes it tough for the genuine demersal freezer fillers as they have to do multiple physical trips up and back at their cost to get the same result (no unaccompanied fish). Plus other than the single dad at home everyone else should be safe bringing home a whole fish and filleting it within their family's possession limit.
How does single dad then get around the issue you might ask?.... well he simply fillets it at his mum and dad's place, takes some for himself and leaves the rest with the folks.
To the people saying that the proposed limits don't make your fishing trips 'cost worthy', I mean c'mon.
Rec fishing isn't cost efficient. If you added up every single bit of gear you've purchased, plus all the bait, fuel, boats, cars, etc etc. and then calculated the actual value of the fish you've caught i'm sure you'll be very very far in the red.
Sure if you buy a handline and a $2 squid jig and wander down to the local jetty and catch a few squid each evening, then that's cost effective, but pretty much any other form of fishing, especially boat fishing isn't cost efficent at all.
Sure it's nice to get a feed of fresh fish if you like eating fish, but isn't the main reason 99% of us are on these forums is because we enjoyactually getting out there and spending time on the ocean and fishing. I don't see how 10kg of demersal fillets a person is not enough.
I can't believe what I am reading on here, so many eager to grab their ankles and happy to champion fisheries. Every time we roll over everyone says "ok well that's that, no more cuts for a while" I am not going to touch the 20kg issue but more the rapidly declining options for rec fisho's, fish for the future? Shit you're kids won't be allowed to fish!
United we stand tall
Spot on Lamby. We aren't talkng about taxes here which are a fact of life, we're talking about something which makes us forget all the shite of the real world and to have some fun. It's hunter gatherer stuff which any bloke loves and the drones are trying hard to take it away from us. Jeeez one trip a year away I get and as said I've never bought back afull 20kg limit but had bloody fun trying.
The biggest issue in all of this is the confusion, the rules need to be clear cut, and communicated to everyone. I browsed this post and stopped counting at ten different interpretations.
Confusion around laws always lead to to people flaunting with and disregarding those laws, whether it be vehicles/ drugs/ fish limits.
Make it clear , In tabular form and inform every Rec Fisher in WA.
while all this debate is going on a couple of points that should be considered
one is , this draft document is put forward as a way to simplify the rules for better fishereis management and understanding by recs state wide ? while i would like to see more uniform regs state wide that make it easier simpler to follow , this document i dont think will achive that in total and it fails to show how it will be easier or better managed ??
, it then seeks to lower bag & possesion limits under the guise of the simplify agenda ?? where is the science to support this lowering of bag and possesion limits , ???? given the fish for the future mantra from the dept , it hasnt proved its case ,
yet on the one hand now they talk about socially acceptable fishing , but when challenged at many state wide rec fishing meetings over the last few years about the demersal reductions ,there response was it is about future scientific sustainability , not whats socially acceptable ???
we are still awaiting some important outcomes from previous years changes in lowering bag limits and closures
why make such a change to lowering the ''at home possesion limit '' if it will never be policed ???? just for the honest folk to read ???
, this change alone will make many good people potentially law breakers , , for example if you have 3kg of fillets at home , weather is good , you head out fishing for demersals , land , a 12 kg jewfish , then a 7kg pinkie , you are all legal untill you fillet it at home , then bang ??your a freezer filler , having broken the law ? what is the point if you will never be checked ??? why make the change if you cant resource its implementation and enforcment ???
i like to fish for the future , we eat most of what we catch , i dislike intensly the catch and release of demersals , get a feed and go home or move off to something else ,enjoy your day on the water .... and i know having had up to seven adults/children at home at one time how much fish you can burn through for a family dinner , nowdays we are only 3 so its much less , but surely the pure essence of going fishing is to take some home to eat , ?? i cant think of any trip up north that iv brought home more than 14 kg ,[thats for the full family of 6 ] going back over many years ,...........................possesion limits at home should remain as is until such time as it can be shown it is a major issue ?? currently i dont think it is
by stopping the couriering of fish fillets , it will go along way to slow down the practice by some high hitters ,
and to those who say fish in your own back yard , dont travel and fish in my town on here , get real , australia belongs to all
standardising regs for the states bio regions is a good thing , but think carefully how it is being done first ,
look at the current history where recs have not caused the damage but have had to cop the hits , rock lobster , demersals , crabs , marron , [supposedly a one season change ]
dont trade away your current rights to quickly or freely imo as you will never get them back in the future
i remember many years ago , attending ameeting of shooters , who had come to listen to new regulations on duck shooting seasons etc ......no one though it would all be gone in a few decades , but it has
vote for sensible sustainable changes to our fishing regulations , but dont get sucked in by what is not good policy making , just for the sake of doing something to feel good about it for your kids
go online at recfishwest and do the survey on these changes , i have and all of you should if you want to have your say ,
been thinking about this 10kg possesion limit at home. i feel the only ones that will get checked are the ones that go out every day and arvo to get a haul and have been watched.it does happen and i have witnesed a raid on a property. 5 officers showed up and one police officer. they came out with several large bags full of something. if you have 2 in the house then its 20 if 3 then 30 and so on. but realistically how many would have more than 10kg of fillets in the freezer per person.i for one wouldnt ,even after a trip away.
A couple of years ago when I was doing a fair bit more fishing than I am today, the guys at Fisheries gave me a formal written exemption certificate because I was shit scared all the dhuie frames I was holding for the fisheries research guys would get me in trouble as being over the 20kg possession limit, which at that time included heads backbones and wings etc.
I am not sure if I need the exemption any more as it looks like heads and frames and more importantly wings are no longer included in possession limits. Wings are one of the best parts of a demersal fish and previously quite a portion of your limit if you decided to bring them home rather than eat on site like we usually do.
I say again 20kgs home and 10kgs travel would suit me to a tee, especially now that wings aren't considered part of the possession limit.
Here's one for you to ponder.... what if those that are convinced they need to bring home 20kgs of fish set up a filleting station at one of the boat ramps and say they will fillet everyone's catch in exchange for the wings.... (I can knock of the wings of any fish in under a minute- check out the video on here on how to do it if you don;t already know) .... based on the Coral Bay stats mentioned earlier where the Shire removed a total of 98,890 litres of fish offal from a single fish cleaning station over a 12-month period (in 2009/10) (bet you there were loads of wings in that lot) ... I reckon they could catch a 7kg limit in Exxy plus a day's bag of whole spaniards/wahoo and bring in triple that in everyone elses wings.
Then you ask, well what is the definition of "fish pieces" if wings head and tail aren't considered part of the 10kgs but "fish pieces" are?????? Answer is.... yet another vague and poorly articulated set of words that needs work before it is put into law and left open to interpretation.
Well I just took the time to look at the proposal and the current rules and filled in the survey so I have had my say to recfish so now to see what happens from here.
For those that only think about quantity rather than quality...
With the proposed changes to posession limits which includes the new alternative possession comprising 7 kg of fillets or pieces of fish plus one day’s bag limit of whole fish. Would this mean that legally you could bring home:
7kgs of Red emporer fillets + say an average of 4 wings (assuming 4 fish made that up) plus as many wings as I like from fish we have consumed whilst on the trip
2 whole Red Emporer (adds maybe another 5kgs of fillets at least) from the Demersal Fin Fish category limit of 5 fish
2 whole Rankin Cod (adds maybe another 5kgs of fillets) from the Demersal Fin Fish category limit of 5 fish
1 whole coral trout (adds maybe 2kgs of fillets if its a good one) from the Demersal Fin Fish category of 5 fish
2 whole Spanish Mackeral (avg 10kgs of fillets each maybe more) from the large pelagic fin fish category of 3 fish
1 whole Yellow Fin Tuna say 30kgs (yeilds maybe 17kgs of fillets) from the large pelagic fin fish category of 3 fish
30 big yellowfin whiting (whole) (yeilds maybe 3kgs of fillets) from the all other species category of 30 fish
8 whole Trevally (I know ... but some people like them if not substitute flatties or threadies or whatever) average say 2kgs each thats a yeild of maybe 5kgs of fillets from the Nearshore Esturine Fin Fish category of 8 fish
However highly unlikely it is, one interpretation of the law would suggest that this is totally acceptable (read socially acceptable) to catch teh above with the total equivalent of edible fish flesh hitting around 64kgs, whereas filleting your single 20kg spaniard or your 30kg grouper or your 20kg Dhuie etc would put you over immerdiately and somehow be socially unacceptable.
Also can someone please tell me why in the Govt Draft paper it has Trevally (Golden and Giant) under both Demersal and Pelagic categories? If I caught 8 of them can I say 5 were caught on the bottom rigs and three were on poppers?
Yet another area where the wording needs clarification / re-hashing.
You can come home with as much squid as you like on top of that as there is no possession limit for cepholopods other than a daily bag limit of 15 per person or 30 per boat.
Now tell me that all that isn't enough and you want to be able to bring back 20kgs of fillets....
gees Andy. i can see it now. people going away with a huge esky in the boat. comming back with it full of all them whole fish you just mentioned as well as all the wings they could score off others that couldnt be bothered as well as the 7kg of fillets.
Andy, I like your idea of the wings...... I love snapper wings.
How many snapper wings would I be allowed to keep??
It's not a fillet, infact it seems many treat them as offal but there is a heap of good meat on the big ones...
....... of the fish you mention above, out of all of those; I've managed to catch Spanish mackeral, Tuna, whiting, pink snapper, in addition to these, we have usually caught a couple of skippy, and Tailor when beach fishing along with the odd mulloway.....
How would you transport a whole mackeral... a decent sized one? I have to fillet, to fit them into my 40 lt engel - and yes it is a freezer!!!! Can I cut them in thirds or quarters but keep them whole and does that include the head and tail?...
So time to get onto the fisheries Website and voice our concerns over the functionality of this whole process.
Well at the moment I would suggest the wording says you can keep as many as you like as it isnt included in the 10kgs or the 7kgs.
With the Mackie I guess you could slice to the backbone and bend but not cut through. It would then I assume be classed as whole.
But again it is another open question that needs answering within the wording of the rules.
So to summarise the things that I think we neeed clarifying:
What is the definition of "fish pieces" if it isn't a fillet or a wing/tail/head? Is it simply a whole fillet that has been portion sized?
Why are Giant and Golden Trevally both in the Large Pelagic and a Demersal Fin Fish categories and how do I determine which one to class it as during my day's fishing?
If I fillet my 20kg Dhuie/spaniard/wahoo/grouper etc do I need to do so in the company of another person who assisted in the capture thereof so that the fillets can be split (ie I do one side and my mate does the other)in order to avoid jail time?
Can we clarify weather home possession is per person residing at that address rather than any one individual that has a boat fishing license and then make that crystal clear in the rules?
Is it socially acceptable to brig my above mentioned days bag of whole fish home when it could equate to 64kgs of edible fish flesh, yet deemed not socially acceptable to fillet my single large fish?
Can I slice one side of my mackie keeping the skin on the other then bend it to fit it in my engel / esky for transport and it still be deemed a "whole" fish?
Loads more questions but thats the main crux of the matter in order for innocent law abiding folk to feel safe when going on a simple fishing trip.
Like hezzy said above, its a marked change in Fisheries mentality away from 'scientifically sustainable' to 'socially acceptable'. What is socially acceptable is open to interpretation, as seen on the comments on the original perthnow article show, eg a green/environmentalist/SOML/PEW researcher will have a different social acceptance to fishing than the average fisher. Mr Bigalow above thinks its socially unacceptable for people who arent locals to engage in extractive activities to take home fish.
'Importantly, the RFBL provides a database of boat fishers across WA, which will assist in determining who is fishing, where they are fishing and what they are catching. All funds raised through recreational licences go back directly into the management of recreational fishing.'
'In 2009, research assessments on the status of key demersal finfish species (dhufish, pink snapper and baldchin groper) on the west coast indicated the level of fishing was not sustainable. This research indicated that catches of demersal species in the West Coast Bioregion needed to be reduced by at least 50 per cent in order to allow stocks to rebuild.
To deliver this catch reduction, the Government approved a range of new measures that included establishing a management framework for demersal species and introducing a state-wide recreational boat fishing licence. This involved separating out demersal species from pelagic ones in the ‘high risk’ category.
The new Recreational Fishing from Boat Licence (RFBL) was primarily designed to provide a state-wide database of recreational boat fishers to assist in surveys to more precisely determine recreational catch and effort.'
So they have implemented changes to the system to reduce it and now are turning the thumbscrews again without waiting for the data which is in the 3500 person survey that they are collating now and will release later this year. Also a specific recruitment survey of Pink Snapper, Dhufish and Baldchin Grouper in the West coast Bio region to be conducted later on this year. Did their management techniques, 2 month demersal closure, implementation of RFBL not achieve its desired outcome?
I live in Perth, have only a small dinghy and unless I get a deckie spot or book a charter my chances of catching a demersal or a pelagic is pretty slim. I went out on a trip recently with a forum member on his boat and another deckie. The skipper bagged out on dhuies on the 2nd and 3rd drop of the first drift. Not wanting to risk any further dhuies and a fair amount of bait activity we trolled around for a few hours changing lure styles, colors etc for no action. We found a new spot and got out the bottom bouncing gear and fortunately got a pink snapper and a baldy and headed in, best day of metro fishing in my life. Catching pelagics south of jurien seems to be a bit hit and miss, summertime, la nina' dependant and when you chuck in at least 50% of the time they are around its blowing its ring off I wonder if there would be that much of an effect on their population.
90% of the time im happy with squid, whiting and herring from my dinghy, but I like to cook and we have people over probably twice a month for dinner and fish is quite popular. I dont really think I should feel bad when I go bottom bouncing probably less than 10 times a year and trolling for pelagics maybe twice a year unless I go on holiday north. Most times I dont come home with a fish, or one fish is boated and divided up by the skipper and a couple of deckies. Why should I feel guilty for coming home with 20kg of fillets once a year? If you live up north and only take enough fresh fish to eat immediately but go once a week taking a trout, mackie, tuna, emporerer etc you are still taking far more biomass out of the ecosystem than I will in a year. Also, I pay boat rego, trailer rego, vehicle rego, fuel, bait, tackle etc same as everone else regardless of where you fish so the resource has to be available to everyone.
I also disagree with the removal of unaccompanied transport of seafood. I think that it would not be that difficult to regulate the transport of frozen seafood requiring photo id and have the information emailed or faxed back to fisheries officers to be checked for repeat names, addresses etc. Why just ban a useful tool and source of income for businesses when you could try to control it. Or is that too difficult? The lack of clarity in regards to the filleting/whole fish is an obvious issue as well. I also agree with the comments about Caught vs Bought and think that potentially a restriction on quantity at wholesale outlets. If rec fishers cant go out and catch it, you shouldnt have access to it just because you can afford it.
Very interesting thread. Its not going to affect me as I normally only bring home one fish and release the rest. I go out for the enjoyment and catching fish is the bonus.
All the trips away I've done be it up North or down South I have never loaded the freeze just enjoyed the fish and eattin it locally. I have family that come North and take there legal limit back to Perth guess it will affect them.....
I prefer fresh fish and rarely freeze it unless We cant eat all meat of the 1 we keep. As for the cost of a fishing trip away from home I would like to think that go way for enjoyment rather then to try and get there limit, maybe I live with my head berried in the sand
All the people I have fished with off this forum fish for fun not for limits.
If you do get on to some nice fish and have more then your 10kg try a random act of kindness and give it to someone less forunate, maybe an older couple that can no longer go boating.
Yes I live up North but operated the same way when I lived in Perth.
I am all about being on the water and having a good time, I Skurf, Cruise, Sail, Fish, Crab but most of all I enjoy being out there, agreed for the fun. My post was not to inspire the North v South debate, people seem to have made it about northern travelling trips and cost effectiveness.
If I lived north or south far enough and could afford a regular fishing mission for fresh material I would do it too, but I live metro with a small boat and dont regularly get the opportunity to fish for demersals or pelagics.
If the key issue is reducing total catch why wouldnt a user pays tagging system work? You buy a RFBL, get access to say 5-10 Cat one fish per year with the licence you pay more, like a 20-30$ fee for a tag for high risk species? Plenty of small boaters like me probably would not ever use their 5-10 without a ride out on a larger boat and those who do, split $20-30 between 2-4 anglers before a trip and if you catch em, sweet, if not save for next time?
SarcasmO, great to see how much you enjoy being on the water. My post was not related to yours just my outlook on the new limits. Its a great post, very interesting to see all sides of the story.
Hang on am I reading this thread right!?
Those opposed to this new legislation are pointing out they are not freezer fillers but concerned at the removal of more rights without perceived appropriate scientific basis - seems legit and a healthy debate
Those for the new regs just slinging mud at those that aren't insinuating they are freezer fillers
Bizarre but it might just be me
it's not about fighting for freezer filling, it's about a management of a sustainable fishery by scientific policy and styd, not Green peer pressure we fighting for.
simple fact: every cow produces green house gasses in excess of it's calorific value to the human race, if we ate more fish and had less cows we would lower green house emmissions ( go check the facts on methane output by cattle!!!) Ask the Greens to support that one based on science!
This debate is about giving people what is appearing to be an extra pellagic fish to take home, but taking away their right to freeze it as fillets in excess of 10kg.
Yet if I bought that same fish at the fishmarket, then I could legally fillet it to as many kilos as I could and keep it.
It's about false science used for social engineering towards Green mentality at any cost. Like the carbon out put of a hybride car from begging of menufacture over 15 years of life is never talked about, cause the second set of batteries it needs at about 7~10 years almost adds another 30% to it's green house gasses output to make. Then making it no different to grandad who is in his 1970's straigh six Ford and using carbon based fuels.
It's all about the SPIN they trying to put on it to make it seem legit and get them Green support, yet not upset the Pro fishing market etc....
again I say:
simple rules
simple definitions
simple policing
NO STUPID LOOP HOLES AND DOUBLE PENNALTY
If I catch three fish legaly in the bag limit, then I should be allowed to keep all three of them in my freezer or fridge as fillets to eat.
And what many forgot to think about is it's not just freezing those fillets, it's just havinmg them as fillets that makes it an issue. in fact taking the rules to the n'th degree, it techincaly makes it illegal to catch a pair of twenty kilogram fish and fillet them down for tomorrow nights BBQ if you caught them late today! Yip, read it as a Judge would not by logic or common sense, but letter of the law. Your 12 or 14kg of fillets you want to use the next day for the faimly BBQ in your fridge ( not frozen, but chilled) would make you a criminal.
In recent years there has been many changes to the rec fishing bag and size limits. Included is a 3 month (from memory on a 3 year trial) closure to all demersal fishing.
Size limits have increased on species like Pink snapper
Bag limits on all Cat 1 fish have dropped to 2 per person
Dhu fish limits dropped to 2 per boat
Introduction of the RFBL ( x amount of millions collected)
Is there any reliable data to show the effect these changes have had on the sustainability of the West australian fish stocks?
Also agree with what someone mentioned earlier, why should we accept rules and regulation changes just because someone or department thinks the fish stocks are still declining? I'm yet to see any such data being made available to prove this. As a matter of fact you hear (on fishwrecked more than anywhere else) of the opposite from anglers and divers, that the number of fish seen or caught, such as Dhu fish seem to be increasing, especially the juvenile dhu's. To me that indiciates the current measures are showing signs of improving the fish stocks (BECAUSE THIS IS THE ONLY DATA AVAILABLE).
I do wonder tho, does fisheries take into consideration all the photos and reports put up on public forums as data, and calculate the amount fo fish caught from these reports?
Across Australia, WA as usual is way behind and SLOW. We had big restrictions in Vic when I was a kid but look at the state of the snapper fishery in Port Phillip Bay. It has WORKED due to management. That's just one example.
In fact it's across the world, look at all the First World Nations, they all have regulated fisheries (and environments).
Australia is renounded for it's extinction rate (look at mammals) and why is that?
Lets become the solution not the problem.
Is it really that hard to give up some small concession for the future generations, and really it is small.
Growth (population) CANNOT increase without resource compromise.
Again we have the opportunity to lead, or do you want to be told what to do all the time. I know what I would rather do so I only keep one fish IF I want one as I release most if I catch any.
The individual has the greatest power to change!
Start with yourself first.
The Government will not stop all fishing or ristrict all access, that goes against all the very ideologies (and it's suicide if they try) of government.
It's purely conservation!
And if you think fisheries is the only (unfairly) regulated aspect of our life then your'e not well enlightend in life.
Lets not dally and wollow in disppear but let us think about it critically and provide constructive disscussion.
We have to start somewhere, but like anything in life, any great journey, any great scientific project the hardest part is the start.
Thats right normal shit it was only may last year when i was at gnaraloo saying to my mates wont be too long before they cut the bag limit up here.
Watch alot of these little fishing towns hurt we all love the adventure and the fishing and doing a big trip up north but with the exspense cost of fuel and acommodation these days its nice to come home with a decent feed
Well personally I agree with most of it, but not all.
I rarely go out to catch my limit, I mostly fish to fish, I dont justify owning a boat just to go out and catch a esky load of dhuies, snapper etc for a feed. If I want to eat fish I will simply go up the road to the fish truck and buy a couple of kg of dhuie or whatever I fancy.
I suppose thats why alot of us chase billies, sambos, sport fish etc because its the enjoyment of being out on the water with mates, sinking a few cans and catchin a few fish. And I think deep down all you lads are the same, why do we go out an buy $1000 rods, $1000 reels if we didnt enjoy the sport?
Personally I dont care about the bag limits, if its going to help the future of our fish stocks in anyway (politics aside) then I am for it and will support it.
If you all think strongly enough to post a comment on this site, you all need to make comment or the DOF will presume you agree or dont care, please go to the recfishwet webite and complete the survey, ring your local radio station or member or write to the Miniter, dont let them get away with this, there is no biological reason why the bag limit should be reduced. Do they really know what they are talking about, if it gets reduced to 10kg of bottom fish and 1 day bag limit of prelagics or 10kg, what happens if your catch is 2 big mackies at about 15kg, then when you fillet them down you end up with over 10kgs in total of fillets, what then, throw back into the ocean or bins at filleting tables?
Anyone who is interested I have a copy of this document -
AUSTRALIAN SEAFOOD CONSUMERS MISLED BY PROPHETS OF DOOM AND GLOOM DR RAY HILBORN Professor of Aquatic and Fisheries Sciences, University of Washington & DR BOB KEARNEY (AM) Emeritus Professor in Fisheries Management, University of Canberra
In pdf form, its 654kb and 19 pages long. I have emailed the Fishwrecked support email to see about getting it posted on here, but havent received anything yet. Email me: if you would like a copy.
Make restrictive rules that curtail the populations freedom and thoughtprocess +limit their ability to have a say by the ones elected by the same population.
Then enforce penalties and you make criminals, according to the legislations brought in, by the 2 faced representatives and revenue from fines and licenses will sky rocket.
The ocean was boiling yesterday full ofbig fish every where from 25km.s out and further to the shore based reefs!
I have four young kids and want them to be able to enjoy fishing with their kids. By all reports the fishing is better now than it was ten years ago but still way down on 20+ years ago. Our population is exploding and our wealth is increasing and as a result more people are fishing than ever plus with improved technology and what ever level of control is used some will complain it’s not enough, others that it is too much and some will happily accept them.
I plan to have my thoughts heard by those that count and I will provide my support to Rec Fish via their feedback process and you should all provide your feedback to ensure your voice is heard.
damo6230
Posts: 2029
Date Joined: 07/06/08
Right of reply
From my experience Australians leave a lot to be desired RE appreciation of Australia.
Make informed decisions and provide legible and articulated discussion based on fact and experience, not heresay or histerics.
Locking land away? Consult a map of Australia and you will see a vast majority of UCL land. One can visit UCL land. You can pretty much access ALL land if you approach it the correct way. It's got VERY little to do with greenies.
Likewise consult a map and show me the percentage of sea locked up as opposed to open.
If you have the right key the lock will open.
Have you heard that Aboriginals are now negoiating rights to the ocean under Native Title? They dont intend to lock it up.
Do you know that if resources are located >1m under your house you dont own it?
It's the Gov you elected that determine laws and given WA is known as pro resources, locking land up aint in the portfolio! I know as I work with this everyday.
FYI
Policy comes from the (very) top, not the bottom up. Again you voted for them!
Kind of like responsibility goes UP the ladder not down.
Dont need two degrees to know that.
And Dizzy now knows I work for DEC and regulate law (as you all do).
I regularly engage in constructive discussions with greenies and you know what, I win far more than I lose and because why, because I've worked both sides of the fence. That's what one does to inform themselves of the real issue, they get in and experince the reality of the situation and learn from both sides of the fence and then based on this experience, formualte a constructive understanding and thus decision. If I dont know something I dont spruke any ideas.
I've worked on cray boats, not here in Australia but in Canada. I've seen the poverty and hardship suffered by the cray fisherman but if you wish to continue this genarational job through your kids and grandkids then you have to preserve cray stock today.
Again it's not rocket science! It's comprimise.
Dizzy
Posts: 753
Date Joined: 21/02/11
Damo, That's the problem
Damo,
That's the problem right there.
I didn't elect anyone.
I'd be embarrassed to say I voted for any of the current clowns in politics.
And due to the endless supply of antics from the political circus we're all forced to endure, I loathe every time I have to vote, because I really don't believe (or have faith) in ANY of them.
damo6230
Posts: 2029
Date Joined: 07/06/08
OK
I'm with you.
Next election lets all take the day off work and go to the bank, withdraw all OUR money and NOT VOTE.
Lets see what happens then and who listens to the people
And it gets worse my friend K Rudd just quit as Foreign Minister......here comes the press.............
MattG
Posts: 104
Date Joined: 09/09/09
For those who wish to make comment:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/recfishwesthaveyoursay
Faulkner Family
Posts: 18173
Date Joined: 11/03/08
to put it bluntly. if you
to put it bluntly. if you dont like the way its going , sell your boat if your only in it for a big feed. there is more to fishing than just bringing home the most fish. go out and enjoy the day on the water and when you do come home with a nice feed it is a bonus, not a right.
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
Lastchance
Posts: 1274
Date Joined: 02/02/09
I havent read to PROPOSAL or
I havent read to PROPOSAL or the DRAFT, but are sharks included in the Pelagic section? I love killing those fuckers, dont eat them though.
Faulkner Family
Posts: 18173
Date Joined: 11/03/08
have a look at the proposal.
have a look at the proposal. it is all stated in there . there is a mention of sharks just cant remember what it was
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
damo6230
Posts: 2029
Date Joined: 07/06/08
ha ha lol
Lastchance comment will open up a hole bag o worms....RE the inclusion of 'politicians' 'policy makers' etc.........
classic
Brucesta
Posts: 1721
Date Joined: 29/05/09
as long as you do it land
as long as you do it land based, you bludgeon it to death in view of small children and thier parents followed by tossing it back in sight of passers by then you'll be fine mate.
Las Vegas - Rolling the dice and trying your luck. 1M+ Barra summer target. 100kg Black Marlin winter target
Mr Bigalow
Posts: 64
Date Joined: 11/12/11
All for the increased limits
Im all for the limits, im sick of FIFO and people down south coming up here and raping and pilaging... Fishing is a sport with the benefits of eating some of your catch...
I think if you dont pay rates in the area you cant take fish..
IMO
A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
sea-kem
Posts: 15108
Date Joined: 30/11/09
So no more trips north for
So no more trips north for anyone?? Unless they pay local rates get real.
Love the West!
Rob H
Posts: 5849
Date Joined: 18/01/12
LOL Mr Bigalow
I hate to break it to you but your rates dont cover anything below the high tide line I believe. Luckily.
Would you like your council to be in charge of Fisheries in your area?
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
crasny1
Posts: 7009
Date Joined: 16/10/08
I am also with Brucesta and Andy Mac
I am not a freezer filler. Only have Prawns and (yum- bought lately) Scampi in there.
As for fish I do go out and catch 1 feed worth off fresh unfrozen fillets so this would not impact on my hobbie at all.
But we are spoiled here Brucesta with the backyard the Ocean, and we do have the ability for little effort to jump in the tub and mostly get a feed. Not so easy in some places and I wonder whether we would be as chilled about the rules if we were down south and had to face that.
I dont like frozen fish at all, often have sashimi and would never be an Exxy esky filler. Not my style but wont get angry at others that do that within the limits. From that point off view I am concerned that we are just going to watch as the tide ride in for fishing as a community, not as individuals.
Instead of bickering with each other we as a fishing community need to stand together not devided on issues that may impact on our friends, if not us. One voice, not I believe this, I believe that.
JMO.
Neels
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
damo6230
Posts: 2029
Date Joined: 07/06/08
Stand united
The day all anglers realise they have no one else to blame but themselves for the state of our fisheries, is the day we can stand united.
That day is not today by the looks of it.
Change must start from within.
championruby
Posts: 459
Date Joined: 20/01/11
Bit rich, don't you
Bit rich, don't you think?
Commercial fishing surely plays large part in the decline of fish stocks, placing blame on the shoulder of the rec-fishers is not going to get anyone united.
I agree with you in the sense that the freezer filling mentality of some has to end for good stocks to exist into the future, but opinions are changing slowly as time goes by.
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
if my total catch was ever
if my total catch was ever put on a table for the last eight years I have been fishing here, It would not even equal three hours of a pro-fishermans harvest when they go out!
it becomes a bitter pill to swallow when you being limited to two fish per day and 10kg in your freezer when you see Pro-boys bring in tons and tons of dhuies, snapper, bladies, reds, spangles etc....
kepping a good feed of fish is not a bad thing, as long as what you catch you eat. I have no problem with some one takig once or twice a year 35kg of filltets for there yearly fishing trip.
compare that to the guys I see every morning and afternoon hitting the Swan river crabs under the Narrows bridge, same guys every day after day!!!! and same goes for the guys in their small allie boats heading out from Mindarie or Hillaries etc three or four times a week and bagging out every time. These guys that hit the water at 5am and out by 8-30am to go off ot their work, then back in by 4~5pm and head in around 8-pm. go sit around the ramps for a few morning and evenings and see who is killing the golden goose!
It's not the average Joe fisherman or the weekend warriors, !!!
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
damo6230
Posts: 2029
Date Joined: 07/06/08
not rich at all
Simple philosophy.
Look inside before you blame outside.
Applies to everything in life as most blame someone else for their own mistakes.
I'm not blaming anyone specifically, nor should the pros get all the blame, who buys the pro's fish and how many members here have stated they give fillets away to family and friends.
Unfortunately you are competing with unique biology and envionments here and it's simple mathmatics, chemistry and physics........overpressure = reduction
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
how many people do you know
how many people do you know that can afford $60 a kilo for dhuie or red emp?
How much local fish is exported and not being sold to local people?
how much of that fish is on the tables for tourist trade resturants?
Very little true facts and figures can be found for where our fish stocks end up?
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
Rob H
Posts: 5849
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Tony
I doubt very much of the Dhuies and Red Emp you mention gets exported.
Hell they dont even know what a dhuie is in Sydney let alone Guangdong so why would they pay megabucks for it?
And what if they do anyway? A fisherman with a permit to operate that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars, then being told he has to sell it on the cheap to locals ONLY?
Thats not how our system works here in Aus.
Dont get me wrong, I detest Basa and its other equivalents being sold here.
But show me a proffessional fisherman still in the game and I'll show you a bloke who cops it from 4 sides.
Processor/middlemen, Banks, Greeny/Rec lobbying and good old Mother Nature. Its not an easy life and these guys are not the enemy.
All fisherman need to band together as-divided we fall....
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Faulkner Family
Posts: 18173
Date Joined: 11/03/08
i remember someone on here
i remember someone on here telling me one day "Its not the destination , its the journey getting there". my taking on this . enjoy what you do and dont be too concerned about the end result. in other words enjoy the fishing even if at the end of the day you dont have a lot to show but memories
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
chookc
Posts: 442
Date Joined: 07/01/10
What a joke.
So now our yearly trip to north. we can only bring back 10kg of bottom fish.. but have to make up the rest in tuna and mackeral..
They really don't think this thru.. It nearly makes the whole trip pointless cost wise. Purely at costs if and you don't always bring back your 20kg you would have spent the same if not a little more than buying it at the shop..
Bang that back by 1/2 especialy if the maks and tuna ain't biting then the trip is not economicly worth it. May as well buy crap fish from the market..
But in My case the 20 kg of fish only lasts about 4months anyway..
Busted Arse
Posts: 253
Date Joined: 02/07/10
If cost is such a concern
If cost is such a concern it might be cheaper buying fish at the fish markets rather then investing in ongoing costs of boat, tackle, travel etc etc to catch said fish. Your still better off at the markets even before the proposed changes are implemented.
Karellean
Posts: 29
Date Joined: 25/05/09
From the perthnow link "Other
From the perthnow link
"Other proposed changes include changes to bag and size limits for vulnerable demersal species such as dhufish and pink snapper, and adopting state-wide fishing zones based on distance from shore, as opposed to the complex bioregions currently in place."
Does this mean the demersal ban will cover the entire WA coast?
All that I know...Is that my gut says.....Maybe...
Faulkner Family
Posts: 18173
Date Joined: 11/03/08
since when are pink snapper
since when are pink snapper high risk.shit loads of them pout there. just not the right size
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
Salmo
Posts: 913
Date Joined: 15/08/05
Have your say
Have your say on proposed changes to recreational fishing rules: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/recfishwesthaveyoursay
Muzzbuzz
Posts: 5
Date Joined: 31/01/12
Haircut
I hate the pros vs rec argument.
But in this circumstance where we have a "integrated Fisheries Management Plan", if recreational fishers are to take a further 50% haircut on their possesion limit in addition to the attempt to reduce fishing pressure in the Western Bioregion by 50% by introducing a closure season, then simply the commercial boys must have their share of the total catch pruned substantially also.
Lets face it, whether you aprove of boys going north and catching their legal 20kg of fillets or not, the fish they catch is generally not wasted. it is consumed by their familys and friends.
I take offence to fisheries representantive sprouting on tv and radio that it is not socially acceptable to catch 20kg of fish fillets. If i choose to do so, i am simply taking my lawful share. It shits me that he should paint responsible rec fishers as social pariahs for providing a healthy protein source for their family.
Get off your ass people and make a submission. Tell your local member if you are not happy. Continuing apathy will result in this just being the thin edge of the wedge and we'll all very quickly find that our much loved hobby and passtime is so bound up in green agendas, we will all wonder what happened to enjoying going fishing.
ahhhh.... my rant is over. I feel much better now!
Waddo
tim-o
Posts: 4657
Date Joined: 24/05/11
F##k bottom bouncin is
F##k bottom bouncin is boring, even if u bring home a feed, Id rather come home with photos of caught and released than fillets. Fish stocks are not the only thing on the downhill slide in society, we're at the peak of human civilisation! Its all down hill from here.........
I am, as I've said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
Wahoo
Posts: 243
Date Joined: 11/06/07
Do the
survey lads
Fishin for a feed and fun.
richardharris51
Posts: 8
Date Joined: 01/02/11
I Am a metro landbased
I Am a metro landbased fisherman and to be honest I find the thought of taking home this much fish crazy and a bit over the top.
For me the talk of 'selling up' my fishing gear and never walking into a tackle store again is ridiculous , the main reason to fish is the actual art and challenge involved I'n fooling a fish to take you bait / lures and hear the scream of the reel and the adrenalin I'n your bones.
I will continue to go to exmouth as I have done twice this year (without a freezer) to fish In one of Australia's greatest world heritage sites because of the scenery and all the other things involved I'n a great trip up north.
The question I pose now is :
If you had a vote on no fish zones v's tougher bag limits I'n WA which one would you choose??
For me it's a no Brainer.
Last thing, just because as a fisherman your pro catch and release and open to a change I'n bag limits doesn't make you a bloody greenie, now i have been a member hear for over a year and i really dont post a lot however recently the anti greenie theme is getting out of hand.
Common guys and girls one team one unit
Perry Home
Posts: 434
Date Joined: 07/10/10
Trade Off - Less Possession for removal of Closed Season
I've mentioned this elsewhere today on the site - but briefly again now - if the possession amount has been reduced (halved) if you are in an area where pelagics are an occasional capture for example - South of Bunbury to 10 kilo for Demersal fish is it not possible to trade off the 2 month closed season ( which in our part of the world is usually the best fishing time Oct/ Nov with lighter offshore winds) for the 10 kilo limit.
Surely if this is the limit of fish we are allowed to have in the freezer per person then by following the law we will be demonstrating effective stewardship of the resource and thereby doing no damage to the fish stocks of the Vulnerable 5 (if we would have, or be close to that limit), thereby taking away the reason not to fish as we will self manage the practice anyway. With this concept in play the Fisheries Dept could re-open the closed season, not keep it closed as it has now enacted an additional strategy to reduce the limits of fish you may keep.
Tomcat
Posts: 614
Date Joined: 24/02/11
Fillets
No more fillets for me bring home 2 days bag 10 good fish I will get a lot more than 10 kl
shammy
Posts: 231
Date Joined: 03/07/09
The winds of change
Glastronomic mentioned a lobby group, well the good ol USA has the NRA to protect their rights.
What is needed is to either join or form a lobby group, pay a membership and employ people to continually lobby Politicians or get a political party to support our interests.... Oh look that's exactly what the Greens have done and now hold the balance of power in this country with the Federal Government. (under a Labor Government there will never be a Carbon tax in this country)
Like him or not but I believe that Bob Katto has had discussions regarding a similar party setup in Australia, until there is a National Body "Shooter fishers Hunter party"; they will continue with the scaremongering and the errosion of our rights of access - Tracks, trails, beaches, "National Parks", Dams, etc for sporting pursuits.
The Professional Fishermen have a governing body and a lobby group to hold Politicians accountable; WE DON'T, and that is why they can FILL THEIR FREEZERS WITH VERY EXPENSIVE FISH and sell them to us at inflated prices.
Andy Mac mentioned 10kg being ok. Mate if I can catch 20 kg of Mackeral fillets they wind up feeding us for the remainder of the year, trouble is I usually only get ONE chance to fish for Mackies per year, and yes once I think we have enough for a family of four; I no longer target that species.
Andy Mac, ref your comment about fisheries knocking on the door.....
Reminds me of a Police Minister who stated and was reported on film as saying words to the effect of,
"although we have had the law and penalty changed for people exceeding the speed limit buy less than 10kph, I cannot see that any Police Officer would be issuing an infringement notice unless the person was behaving in a manner likely to draw attention to themselves." And we all know that worked..............
"Life wasn't meant to be a spectator sport"
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
The door knock debate
I hear you Shammy re the speeding fine system, but I seriously think there is a chasm of difference in the resources of fisheries policing versus general policing, so its a long bow to draw that analogy in my opinion.
If anyone thinks that our limited number of fisheries officers would be best put to use by doing random door knocking and freezer inspections across the claimed 600,000 rec fisho's out there, then I would be very surprised by such logic.
The door knock (if it ever occurs) will be selective and targetted at those people that they have serious suspicion of rorting the system not the average Joe Blow.
There is a big resouce commitment difference between passively monitoring a road with millions of cars driving past versus physically commiting human resources to firstly (I presume) getting a search warrant then getting in a van with multiple officers and raiding your back shed feezer, going through all the paperwork involved in counting and weighing, assessing number of people in residence etc etc.
With the Mackie fillets don't forget you can bring back whole fish, so you will still be able to bring back the equivalent of 20kgs maybe more and if you get stopped on the road by a fisheries officer you are within the law as long as they are whole fish.
The only thing I think you may be eluding to is that after they stop you with 2 x 20kg mackies in the eskie (bloody big esky), that they will follow you home and put your house under surveillance until you fillet them and then jump out of the bushes to nab you for being in excess of 10kgs of fillets. Whilst I think it is unlikely to occur it is definitely the area where the law needs to be articulated better to stop it being legal in one sense (whole fish) and then illegal as soon as it is filleted (its the same fish and the same resource value). That's where the law needs to be changed or at the very least articulated better to clear it up one way or the other.
They claim that this change in the laws is designed to make it easier to understand but like the old issue regarding deepwater fish slot limits where a 30kg barotrauma suffering cod was illegal to land yet destined to be shark fodder, this issue of whole fish versus filleted is confusing and illogical and needs to be changed. The voice of local anglers got the slot limit issue resolved so I don;t see why we can't get this whole versus fillet possession limit issue cleared up.
I'll say it again. I believe a 10kg travelling limit and a 20kg at permanent place of residence limit (per person residing there) would be far better. That way the once a year guys aren't impacted too heavily but it makes it tough for the genuine demersal freezer fillers as they have to do multiple physical trips up and back at their cost to get the same result (no unaccompanied fish). Plus other than the single dad at home everyone else should be safe bringing home a whole fish and filleting it within their family's possession limit.
How does single dad then get around the issue you might ask?.... well he simply fillets it at his mum and dad's place, takes some for himself and leaves the rest with the folks.
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
marrisy
Posts: 205
Date Joined: 08/09/11
And let's not forget, these
And let's not forget, these rules only apply to honest people.
Mr Bigalow
Posts: 64
Date Joined: 11/12/11
thats the spirit lets take as
thats the spirit lets take as much as we can!!
A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
Daniel Y
Posts: 423
Date Joined: 30/09/05
To the people saying that
To the people saying that the proposed limits don't make your fishing trips 'cost worthy', I mean c'mon.
Rec fishing isn't cost efficient. If you added up every single bit of gear you've purchased, plus all the bait, fuel, boats, cars, etc etc. and then calculated the actual value of the fish you've caught i'm sure you'll be very very far in the red.
Sure if you buy a handline and a $2 squid jig and wander down to the local jetty and catch a few squid each evening, then that's cost effective, but pretty much any other form of fishing, especially boat fishing isn't cost efficent at all.
Sure it's nice to get a feed of fresh fish if you like eating fish, but isn't the main reason 99% of us are on these forums is because we enjoyactually getting out there and spending time on the ocean and fishing. I don't see how 10kg of demersal fillets a person is not enough.
Lamby
Posts: 3145
Date Joined: 04/08/09
I can't believe what I am
I can't believe what I am reading on here, so many eager to grab their ankles and happy to champion fisheries. Every time we roll over everyone says "ok well that's that, no more cuts for a while" I am not going to touch the 20kg issue but more the rapidly declining options for rec fisho's, fish for the future? Shit you're kids won't be allowed to fish!
United we stand tall
damo6230
Posts: 2029
Date Joined: 07/06/08
bend over?
Your 'grab your ankle' logic is very interesting in the grand scheme of Australian State or Federal law and politics.
Just think of all the times you have 'rolled over' when laws that directly affect your life have been implemented and you've never opposed them!
Think about taxes.........
Lamby
Posts: 3145
Date Joined: 04/08/09
I agree Damo & have done
I agree Damo & have done exactly that then once the effect is felt I really despise our laissez faire attitude.
sea-kem
Posts: 15108
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Spot on Lamby. We aren't
Spot on Lamby. We aren't talkng about taxes here which are a fact of life, we're talking about something which makes us forget all the shite of the real world and to have some fun. It's hunter gatherer stuff which any bloke loves and the drones are trying hard to take it away from us. Jeeez one trip a year away I get and as said I've never bought back afull 20kg limit but had bloody fun trying.
Love the West!
hillinb
Posts: 65
Date Joined: 19/07/10
The Big Issue
The biggest issue in all of this is the confusion, the rules need to be clear cut, and communicated to everyone.
I browsed this post and stopped counting at ten different interpretations.
Confusion around laws always lead to to people flaunting with and disregarding those laws, whether it be vehicles/ drugs/ fish limits.
Make it clear , In tabular form and inform every Rec Fisher in WA.
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
Absolutely
Spot on. But a couple of the laws need to be tweeked a little first.
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
while all this debate is
while all this debate is going on a couple of points that should be considered
one is , this draft document is put forward as a way to simplify the rules for better fishereis management and understanding by recs state wide ? while i would like to see more uniform regs state wide that make it easier simpler to follow , this document i dont think will achive that in total and it fails to show how it will be easier or better managed ??
, it then seeks to lower bag & possesion limits under the guise of the simplify agenda ?? where is the science to support this lowering of bag and possesion limits , ???? given the fish for the future mantra from the dept , it hasnt proved its case ,
yet on the one hand now they talk about socially acceptable fishing , but when challenged at many state wide rec fishing meetings over the last few years about the demersal reductions ,there response was it is about future scientific sustainability , not whats socially acceptable ???
we are still awaiting some important outcomes from previous years changes in lowering bag limits and closures
why make such a change to lowering the ''at home possesion limit '' if it will never be policed ???? just for the honest folk to read ???
, this change alone will make many good people potentially law breakers , , for example if you have 3kg of fillets at home , weather is good , you head out fishing for demersals , land , a 12 kg jewfish , then a 7kg pinkie , you are all legal untill you fillet it at home , then bang ??your a freezer filler , having broken the law ? what is the point if you will never be checked ??? why make the change if you cant resource its implementation and enforcment ???
i like to fish for the future , we eat most of what we catch , i dislike intensly the catch and release of demersals , get a feed and go home or move off to something else ,enjoy your day on the water .... and i know having had up to seven adults/children at home at one time how much fish you can burn through for a family dinner , nowdays we are only 3 so its much less , but surely the pure essence of going fishing is to take some home to eat , ?? i cant think of any trip up north that iv brought home more than 14 kg ,[thats for the full family of 6 ] going back over many years ,...........................possesion limits at home should remain as is until such time as it can be shown it is a major issue ?? currently i dont think it is
by stopping the couriering of fish fillets , it will go along way to slow down the practice by some high hitters ,
and to those who say fish in your own back yard , dont travel and fish in my town on here , get real , australia belongs to all
standardising regs for the states bio regions is a good thing , but think carefully how it is being done first ,
look at the current history where recs have not caused the damage but have had to cop the hits , rock lobster , demersals , crabs , marron , [supposedly a one season change ]
dont trade away your current rights to quickly or freely imo as you will never get them back in the future
i remember many years ago , attending ameeting of shooters , who had come to listen to new regulations on duck shooting seasons etc ......no one though it would all be gone in a few decades , but it has
vote for sensible sustainable changes to our fishing regulations , but dont get sucked in by what is not good policy making , just for the sake of doing something to feel good about it for your kids
go online at recfishwest and do the survey on these changes , i have and all of you should if you want to have your say ,
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
Well said Hezzy, why make
Well said Hezzy,
why make people criminals by fault of a techinicality in the rules!
Why give the fisherman and extra pellagic for the baglimit, then stop them from taking it via fillet rules...
simple rules = simple policing and easy understanding.
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
Faulkner Family
Posts: 18173
Date Joined: 11/03/08
been thinking about this
been thinking about this 10kg possesion limit at home. i feel the only ones that will get checked are the ones that go out every day and arvo to get a haul and have been watched.it does happen and i have witnesed a raid on a property. 5 officers showed up and one police officer. they came out with several large bags full of something. if you have 2 in the house then its 20 if 3 then 30 and so on. but realistically how many would have more than 10kg of fillets in the freezer per person.i for one wouldnt ,even after a trip away.
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
Exemptions
A couple of years ago when I was doing a fair bit more fishing than I am today, the guys at Fisheries gave me a formal written exemption certificate because I was shit scared all the dhuie frames I was holding for the fisheries research guys would get me in trouble as being over the 20kg possession limit, which at that time included heads backbones and wings etc.
I am not sure if I need the exemption any more as it looks like heads and frames and more importantly wings are no longer included in possession limits. Wings are one of the best parts of a demersal fish and previously quite a portion of your limit if you decided to bring them home rather than eat on site like we usually do.
I say again 20kgs home and 10kgs travel would suit me to a tee, especially now that wings aren't considered part of the possession limit.
Here's one for you to ponder.... what if those that are convinced they need to bring home 20kgs of fish set up a filleting station at one of the boat ramps and say they will fillet everyone's catch in exchange for the wings.... (I can knock of the wings of any fish in under a minute- check out the video on here on how to do it if you don;t already know) .... based on the Coral Bay stats mentioned earlier where the Shire removed a total of 98,890 litres of fish offal from a single fish cleaning station over a 12-month period (in 2009/10) (bet you there were loads of wings in that lot) ... I reckon they could catch a 7kg limit in Exxy plus a day's bag of whole spaniards/wahoo and bring in triple that in everyone elses wings.
Then you ask, well what is the definition of "fish pieces" if wings head and tail aren't considered part of the 10kgs but "fish pieces" are?????? Answer is.... yet another vague and poorly articulated set of words that needs work before it is put into law and left open to interpretation.
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
trailcraft_tony
Posts: 75
Date Joined: 15/12/09
Well I just took the time to
Well I just took the time to look at the proposal and the current rules and filled in the survey so I have had my say to recfish so now to see what happens from here.
Mr Bigalow
Posts: 64
Date Joined: 11/12/11
Doesnt take a real smart
Doesnt take a real smart person to realise that these cuts are needed, and like everything its only the odd few that ruin it for everyone....
Wouldnt bother me if they said you cannot freezer fish. That would be a good rule as you then would only take what you need.
This "what about our trip up north not being economicaly viable" is rubbish. Thats the mentality that makes this law change. GREED.
If you come up north on a fishing trip eat the fish you catch up here, when your here. IMO you shouldnt beable to take fish back down south...
P.s you dont see me coming back up north with 20KG of stinking bream and herring...
A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
anf that nice shark you have
and that nice shark you have in that pic? would it give you more than 10kg fillets if you took a pair of them in a day?
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
Mr Bigalow
Posts: 64
Date Joined: 11/12/11
not the way i fillet!!
not the way i fillet!!
A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
snappermiles
Posts: 2100
Date Joined: 05/11/10
so mr bigalow
your saying you go fishing get your two duhies at say 10 kg fillet them and eat them all in the next few days?? are you for real
ALL FISHERMEN ARE LIARS EXCEPT YOU AND ME! AND IM NOT SO SURE ABOUT YOU!
Mr Bigalow
Posts: 64
Date Joined: 11/12/11
negative
i only only keep enough for dinner, and release everything else.
As i enjoy fishing, more then i enjoy eating... and the way half these comments are going its no wonder the regs are changing..
A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
Another interesting scenario to ponder
For those that only think about quantity rather than quality...
With the proposed changes to posession limits which includes the new alternative possession comprising 7 kg of fillets or pieces of fish plus one day’s bag limit of whole fish. Would this mean that legally you could bring home:
7kgs of Red emporer fillets + say an average of 4 wings (assuming 4 fish made that up) plus as many wings as I like from fish we have consumed whilst on the trip
2 whole Red Emporer (adds maybe another 5kgs of fillets at least) from the Demersal Fin Fish category limit of 5 fish
2 whole Rankin Cod (adds maybe another 5kgs of fillets) from the Demersal Fin Fish category limit of 5 fish
1 whole coral trout (adds maybe 2kgs of fillets if its a good one) from the Demersal Fin Fish category of 5 fish
2 whole Spanish Mackeral (avg 10kgs of fillets each maybe more) from the large pelagic fin fish category of 3 fish
1 whole Yellow Fin Tuna say 30kgs (yeilds maybe 17kgs of fillets) from the large pelagic fin fish category of 3 fish
30 big yellowfin whiting (whole) (yeilds maybe 3kgs of fillets) from the all other species category of 30 fish
8 whole Trevally (I know ... but some people like them if not substitute flatties or threadies or whatever) average say 2kgs each thats a yeild of maybe 5kgs of fillets from the Nearshore Esturine Fin Fish category of 8 fish
However highly unlikely it is, one interpretation of the law would suggest that this is totally acceptable (read socially acceptable) to catch teh above with the total equivalent of edible fish flesh hitting around 64kgs, whereas filleting your single 20kg spaniard or your 30kg grouper or your 20kg Dhuie etc would put you over immerdiately and somehow be socially unacceptable.
Also can someone please tell me why in the Govt Draft paper it has Trevally (Golden and Giant) under both Demersal and Pelagic categories? If I caught 8 of them can I say 5 were caught on the bottom rigs and three were on poppers?
Yet another area where the wording needs clarification / re-hashing.
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
I forgot to add
You can come home with as much squid as you like on top of that as there is no possession limit for cepholopods other than a daily bag limit of 15 per person or 30 per boat.

Now tell me that all that isn't enough and you want to be able to bring back 20kgs of fillets....
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
Faulkner Family
Posts: 18173
Date Joined: 11/03/08
gees Andy. i can see it now.
gees Andy. i can see it now. people going away with a huge esky in the boat. comming back with it full of all them whole fish you just mentioned as well as all the wings they could score off others that couldnt be bothered as well as the 7kg of fillets.
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
shammy
Posts: 231
Date Joined: 03/07/09
Ok then
Andy, I like your idea of the wings...... I love snapper wings.
How many snapper wings would I be allowed to keep??
It's not a fillet, infact it seems many treat them as offal but there is a heap of good meat on the big ones...
....... of the fish you mention above, out of all of those; I've managed to catch Spanish mackeral, Tuna, whiting, pink snapper, in addition to these, we have usually caught a couple of skippy, and Tailor when beach fishing along with the odd mulloway.....
How would you transport a whole mackeral... a decent sized one? I have to fillet, to fit them into my 40 lt engel - and yes it is a freezer!!!! Can I cut them in thirds or quarters but keep them whole and does that include the head and tail?...
So time to get onto the fisheries Website and voice our concerns over the functionality of this whole process.
"Life wasn't meant to be a spectator sport"
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
Thats exactly it Shammy
How many wings can I keep?
Well at the moment I would suggest the wording says you can keep as many as you like as it isnt included in the 10kgs or the 7kgs.
With the Mackie I guess you could slice to the backbone and bend but not cut through. It would then I assume be classed as whole.
But again it is another open question that needs answering within the wording of the rules.
So to summarise the things that I think we neeed clarifying:
Loads more questions but thats the main crux of the matter in order for innocent law abiding folk to feel safe when going on a simple fishing trip.
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
Been thinking this over all day
Like hezzy said above, its a marked change in Fisheries mentality away from 'scientifically sustainable' to 'socially acceptable'. What is socially acceptable is open to interpretation, as seen on the comments on the original perthnow article show, eg a green/environmentalist/SOML/PEW researcher will have a different social acceptance to fishing than the average fisher. Mr Bigalow above thinks its socially unacceptable for people who arent locals to engage in extractive activities to take home fish.
'Importantly, the RFBL provides a database of boat fishers
across WA, which will assist in determining who is fishing,
where they are fishing and what they are catching. All
funds raised through recreational licences go back directly
into the management of recreational fishing.'
http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/docs/pub/FishingFromBoat/Rec%20Licence%20Guide%20Boat%20Fishing.pdf
'In 2009, research assessments on the status of key demersal finfish species (dhufish, pink snapper
and baldchin groper) on the west coast indicated the level of fishing was not sustainable. This
research indicated that catches of demersal species in the West Coast Bioregion needed to be
reduced by at least 50 per cent in order to allow stocks to rebuild.
To deliver this catch reduction, the Government approved a range of new measures that included
establishing a management framework for demersal species and introducing a state-wide
recreational boat fishing licence. This involved separating out demersal species from pelagic
ones in the ‘high risk’ category.
The new Recreational Fishing from Boat Licence (RFBL) was primarily designed to provide a
state-wide database of recreational boat fishers to assist in surveys to more precisely determine
recreational catch and effort.'
http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/docs/mp/mp252/fmp252.pdf
So they have implemented changes to the system to reduce it and now are turning the thumbscrews again without waiting for the data which is in the 3500 person survey that they are collating now and will release later this year. Also a specific recruitment survey of Pink Snapper, Dhufish and Baldchin Grouper in the West coast Bio region to be conducted later on this year. Did their management techniques, 2 month demersal closure, implementation of RFBL not achieve its desired outcome?
I live in Perth, have only a small dinghy and unless I get a deckie spot or book a charter my chances of catching a demersal or a pelagic is pretty slim. I went out on a trip recently with a forum member on his boat and another deckie. The skipper bagged out on dhuies on the 2nd and 3rd drop of the first drift. Not wanting to risk any further dhuies and a fair amount of bait activity we trolled around for a few hours changing lure styles, colors etc for no action. We found a new spot and got out the bottom bouncing gear and fortunately got a pink snapper and a baldy and headed in, best day of metro fishing in my life. Catching pelagics south of jurien seems to be a bit hit and miss, summertime, la nina' dependant and when you chuck in at least 50% of the time they are around its blowing its ring off I wonder if there would be that much of an effect on their population.
90% of the time im happy with squid, whiting and herring from my dinghy, but I like to cook and we have people over probably twice a month for dinner and fish is quite popular. I dont really think I should feel bad when I go bottom bouncing probably less than 10 times a year and trolling for pelagics maybe twice a year unless I go on holiday north. Most times I dont come home with a fish, or one fish is boated and divided up by the skipper and a couple of deckies. Why should I feel guilty for coming home with 20kg of fillets once a year? If you live up north and only take enough fresh fish to eat immediately but go once a week taking a trout, mackie, tuna, emporerer etc you are still taking far more biomass out of the ecosystem than I will in a year. Also, I pay boat rego, trailer rego, vehicle rego, fuel, bait, tackle etc same as everone else regardless of where you fish so the resource has to be available to everyone.
I also disagree with the removal of unaccompanied transport of seafood. I think that it would not be that difficult to regulate the transport of frozen seafood requiring photo id and have the information emailed or faxed back to fisheries officers to be checked for repeat names, addresses etc. Why just ban a useful tool and source of income for businesses when you could try to control it. Or is that too difficult? The lack of clarity in regards to the filleting/whole fish is an obvious issue as well. I also agree with the comments about Caught vs Bought and think that potentially a restriction on quantity at wholesale outlets. If rec fishers cant go out and catch it, you shouldnt have access to it just because you can afford it.
Man Overboard
Posts: 957
Date Joined: 16/01/10
First up it was a 20 kg
First up it was a 20 kg limit, then they introduced the term " Dermersal " and banned us from fishing 3 mths per year.
Then bag and boat limits were slashed
Now they want 10 kg limits
Hands up those who think it will stop here.
CCC
Posts: 540
Date Joined: 29/03/10
Very interesting thread. Its
Very interesting thread. Its not going to affect me as I normally only bring home one fish and release the rest. I go out for the enjoyment and catching fish is the bonus.
All the trips away I've done be it up North or down South I have never loaded the freeze just enjoyed the fish and eattin it locally. I have family that come North and take there legal limit back to Perth guess it will affect them.....
I prefer fresh fish and rarely freeze it unless We cant eat all meat of the 1 we keep. As for the cost of a fishing trip away from home I would like to think that go way for enjoyment rather then to try and get there limit, maybe I live with my head berried in the sand
All the people I have fished with off this forum fish for fun not for limits.
If you do get on to some nice fish and have more then your 10kg try a random act of kindness and give it to someone less forunate, maybe an older couple that can no longer go boating.
Yes I live up North but operated the same way when I lived in Perth.
CCC
Mr Bigalow
Posts: 64
Date Joined: 11/12/11
CCC I agree
Thats the attitude i would have assumed majority oin here would agree with
A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
Reply
CCC,
I am all about being on the water and having a good time, I Skurf, Cruise, Sail, Fish, Crab but most of all I enjoy being out there, agreed for the fun. My post was not to inspire the North v South debate, people seem to have made it about northern travelling trips and cost effectiveness.
If I lived north or south far enough and could afford a regular fishing mission for fresh material I would do it too, but I live metro with a small boat and dont regularly get the opportunity to fish for demersals or pelagics.
If the key issue is reducing total catch why wouldnt a user pays tagging system work? You buy a RFBL, get access to say 5-10 Cat one fish per year with the licence you pay more, like a 20-30$ fee for a tag for high risk species? Plenty of small boaters like me probably would not ever use their 5-10 without a ride out on a larger boat and those who do, split $20-30 between 2-4 anglers before a trip and if you catch em, sweet, if not save for next time?
Just trying to think out of the box?
CCC
Posts: 540
Date Joined: 29/03/10
SarcasmO, great to see how
SarcasmO, great to see how much you enjoy being on the water. My post was not related to yours just my outlook on the new limits. Its a great post, very interesting to see all sides of the story.
CCC
PS, how bigs your dinghy.
Lamby
Posts: 3145
Date Joined: 04/08/09
Hang on am I reading this
Hang on am I reading this thread right!?
Those opposed to this new legislation are pointing out they are not freezer fillers but concerned at the removal of more rights without perceived appropriate scientific basis - seems legit and a healthy debate
Those for the new regs just slinging mud at those that aren't insinuating they are freezer fillers
Bizarre but it might just be me
CCC
Posts: 540
Date Joined: 29/03/10
Agree great debate, i'm
Agree great debate, i'm neither for nor against new limits as they will not affect me. Just hope either way people keep enjoying the big blue sea!!
CCC
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
it's not about fighting for
it's not about fighting for freezer filling, it's about a management of a sustainable fishery by scientific policy and styd, not Green peer pressure we fighting for.
simple fact: every cow produces green house gasses in excess of it's calorific value to the human race, if we ate more fish and had less cows we would lower green house emmissions ( go check the facts on methane output by cattle!!!) Ask the Greens to support that one based on science!
This debate is about giving people what is appearing to be an extra pellagic fish to take home, but taking away their right to freeze it as fillets in excess of 10kg.
Yet if I bought that same fish at the fishmarket, then I could legally fillet it to as many kilos as I could and keep it.
It's about false science used for social engineering towards Green mentality at any cost. Like the carbon out put of a hybride car from begging of menufacture over 15 years of life is never talked about, cause the second set of batteries it needs at about 7~10 years almost adds another 30% to it's green house gasses output to make. Then making it no different to grandad who is in his 1970's straigh six Ford and using carbon based fuels.
It's all about the SPIN they trying to put on it to make it seem legit and get them Green support, yet not upset the Pro fishing market etc....
again I say:
If I catch three fish legaly in the bag limit, then I should be allowed to keep all three of them in my freezer or fridge as fillets to eat.
And what many forgot to think about is it's not just freezing those fillets, it's just havinmg them as fillets that makes it an issue. in fact taking the rules to the n'th degree, it techincaly makes it illegal to catch a pair of twenty kilogram fish and fillet them down for tomorrow nights BBQ if you caught them late today! Yip, read it as a Judge would not by logic or common sense, but letter of the law. Your 12 or 14kg of fillets you want to use the next day for the faimly BBQ in your fridge ( not frozen, but chilled) would make you a criminal.
JMO
TONY
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
Bodie
Posts: 3758
Date Joined: 05/11/07
Im with what Lamby has
Im with what Lamby has said
In recent years there has been many changes to the rec fishing bag and size limits. Included is a 3 month (from memory on a 3 year trial) closure to all demersal fishing.
Size limits have increased on species like Pink snapper
Bag limits on all Cat 1 fish have dropped to 2 per person
Dhu fish limits dropped to 2 per boat
Introduction of the RFBL ( x amount of millions collected)
Is there any reliable data to show the effect these changes have had on the sustainability of the West australian fish stocks?
Also agree with what someone mentioned earlier, why should we accept rules and regulation changes just because someone or department thinks the fish stocks are still declining? I'm yet to see any such data being made available to prove this. As a matter of fact you hear (on fishwrecked more than anywhere else) of the opposite from anglers and divers, that the number of fish seen or caught, such as Dhu fish seem to be increasing, especially the juvenile dhu's. To me that indiciates the current measures are showing signs of improving the fish stocks (BECAUSE THIS IS THE ONLY DATA AVAILABLE).
I do wonder tho, does fisheries take into consideration all the photos and reports put up on public forums as data, and calculate the amount fo fish caught from these reports?
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
just a little take on your
just a little take on your last statement.
look how many users we have on our forum and how few fish in reality are posted up!!! I doubt that they can draw anything from those posts & pictures,
sorry, but I think they so caught up in their computer modeling and random camera palcements etc, that they loosing the plot of true fish numbers.
JMO
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
Bodie
Posts: 3758
Date Joined: 05/11/07
Would they take into
Would they take into consideration the number of users, or just the number of fish caught?
I'd think the the number of fish caught!
damo6230
Posts: 2029
Date Joined: 07/06/08
There's been recent changes for a myriad of reasons
Across Australia, WA as usual is way behind and SLOW. We had big restrictions in Vic when I was a kid but look at the state of the snapper fishery in Port Phillip Bay. It has WORKED due to management. That's just one example.
In fact it's across the world, look at all the First World Nations, they all have regulated fisheries (and environments).
Australia is renounded for it's extinction rate (look at mammals) and why is that?
Lets become the solution not the problem.
Is it really that hard to give up some small concession for the future generations, and really it is small.
Growth (population) CANNOT increase without resource compromise.
Again we have the opportunity to lead, or do you want to be told what to do all the time. I know what I would rather do so I only keep one fish IF I want one as I release most if I catch any.
The individual has the greatest power to change!
Start with yourself first.
The Government will not stop all fishing or ristrict all access, that goes against all the very ideologies (and it's suicide if they try) of government.
It's purely conservation!
And if you think fisheries is the only (unfairly) regulated aspect of our life then your'e not well enlightend in life.
Lets not dally and wollow in disppear but let us think about it critically and provide constructive disscussion.
We have to start somewhere, but like anything in life, any great journey, any great scientific project the hardest part is the start.
johnno67
Posts: 408
Date Joined: 12/03/10
normal shit
Thats right normal shit it was only may last year when i was at gnaraloo saying to my mates wont be too long before they cut the bag limit up here.
Watch alot of these little fishing towns hurt we all love the adventure and the fishing and doing a big trip up north but with the exspense cost of fuel and acommodation these days its nice to come home with a decent feed
fishermans widow
Posts: 44
Date Joined: 05/02/11
You are right there Johnno,
You are right there Johnno, the department dont think of the damage it will do to the small businesses who reply on tourism created from fishing
BigClarky
Posts: 24
Date Joined: 24/02/12
Well personally I agree
Well personally I agree with most of it, but not all.
I rarely go out to catch my limit, I mostly fish to fish, I dont justify owning a boat just to go out and catch a esky load of dhuies, snapper etc for a feed. If I want to eat fish I will simply go up the road to the fish truck and buy a couple of kg of dhuie or whatever I fancy.
I suppose thats why alot of us chase billies, sambos, sport fish etc because its the enjoyment of being out on the water with mates, sinking a few cans and catchin a few fish. And I think deep down all you lads are the same, why do we go out an buy $1000 rods, $1000 reels if we didnt enjoy the sport?
Personally I dont care about the bag limits, if its going to help the future of our fish stocks in anyway (politics aside) then I am for it and will support it.
Thats my 2 cents.
Shaun Clark
Hairyone
Posts: 246
Date Joined: 26/12/09
Apparently they are going to
Apparently they are going to slash the price of fishing licences too! NOT.... LOL
fishermans widow
Posts: 44
Date Joined: 05/02/11
New Proposed Recreational Fishing possession limits
If you all think strongly enough to post a comment on this site, you all need to make comment or the DOF will presume you agree or dont care, please go to the recfishwet webite and complete the survey, ring your local radio station or member or write to the Miniter, dont let them get away with this, there is no biological reason why the bag limit should be reduced. Do they really know what they are talking about, if it gets reduced to 10kg of bottom fish and 1 day bag limit of prelagics or 10kg, what happens if your catch is 2 big mackies at about 15kg, then when you fillet them down you end up with over 10kgs in total of fillets, what then, throw back into the ocean or bins at filleting tables?
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
Australian Seafood Consumers Mislead by prophets document
Anyone who is interested I have a copy of this document -
AUSTRALIAN SEAFOOD CONSUMERS MISLED BY PROPHETS OF
DOOM AND GLOOM
DR RAY HILBORN
Professor of Aquatic and Fisheries Sciences,
University of Washington
&
DR BOB KEARNEY (AM)
Emeritus Professor in Fisheries Management,
University of Canberra
In pdf form, its 654kb and 19 pages long. I have emailed the Fishwrecked support email to see about getting it posted on here, but havent received anything yet. Email me: if you would like a copy.
Bryan
glastronomic
Posts: 892
Date Joined: 16/02/11
It is realy simple and tried
It is realy simple and tried before.
Make restrictive rules that curtail the populations freedom and thoughtprocess +limit their ability to have a say by the ones elected by the same population.
Then enforce penalties and you make criminals, according to the legislations brought in, by the 2 faced representatives and revenue from fines and licenses will sky rocket.
The ocean was boiling yesterday full ofbig fish every where from 25km.s out and further to the shore based reefs!
Pilbra Dave
Posts: 194
Date Joined: 30/09/11
I Support the Proposal
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion,
I have four young kids and want them to be able to enjoy fishing with their kids. By all reports the fishing is better now than it was ten years ago but still way down on 20+ years ago. Our population is exploding and our wealth is increasing and as a result more people are fishing than ever plus with improved technology and what ever level of control is used some will complain it’s not enough, others that it is too much and some will happily accept them.
I plan to have my thoughts heard by those that count and I will provide my support to Rec Fish via their feedback process and you should all provide your feedback to ensure your voice is heard.
ZTo provide your feedback visit http://www.recfishwest.org.au/
If you ain't Fishin you ain't Livin